Foreign born scousers?

Post by **PJLong** » 25 Apr 2010 22:18

Wonder if someone can point me in the right direction! A friends tree has a George Thomas born 1835-ish in Athens, Greece (British Subject). I've got him marrying Elizabeth Bridge at St Philip in 1869 and on the 1881 census in Lightbody St. with Elizabeth, Sarah 12, Robert 10, Andrew 7, Helena 3 and Margaret Rose 4 months. Elizabeth is alone, but married, with Sarah and Robert on the 1871. She's widowed by the 1891.
Same friends tree.... Augustus Miller, born 1831-ish who married Winifred Hannan at St Nicks in 1859 ...father named John Miller (thanks Jan!) I have him on the census for 1861, 1871 and 1881. Winifred is widowed by 1891. Augustus has a birthplace "Prussia, Stettin" and "Naturalized British Subject" on the 1861 census. Stettin now known as Szczecin, Poland, I believe! Does anyone have suggestions as to how I find more info on these two gents?
Many thanks for anything!
Pauline.

Post by **Tina** » 26 Apr 2010 00:32

Hi PJ

Good luck with this post.
The crew I'm sure will be able to help.

He was probably born Georgios Tomas, I found this spelling using All Resources in familysearch.

Also Augustus Mueller but he was born in Russia and married there.

Tina

Post by **dickiesam** » 26 Apr 2010 04:28

Hi Pauline,
It looks like you've two different problems here. The George Thomas born 1835-ish in Athens, Greece (British Subject) would appear to have been born of British parents or at least have had a British father. This is indicated by the British Subject notation you will find on census pages. If he was born after 1837 he might be listed in the Consular indexes or in the Military indexes. Prior to that his birth might be somewhere in the British Library archives.

Augustus Miller/Mueller is a "Naturalized British Subject". So his parents were 'alien' and he was born a foreign national. His application for Naturalisation should be in the National Archives.

Dickiesam

PS: There's a George Thomas listed in the Ionian Chaplain's Return of Births 1818 to 1864. Born Cephalonia - 11 - 67. Unfortunately there's no actual year given but from the entry I would expect it is after Sept 1837.

Post by **PJLong** » 26 Apr 2010 08:15

Good morning crew, I knew this one was going to be a long slog!
Shall get down to exploring the channels suggested later. There's that added bonus of names being slightly/very different at birth! Will report back with any news.
Thanks Tina and Dickiesam for input.
Pauline.

Post by **garstonite** » 26 Apr 2010 08:19

you can try
www.geneanet.org
register free
homepage surname mueller
place poland
4 family trees
one of those tree owners is in California so English speaking.....good luck
allan

ADDED....Pauline....click on the green tree on the right of the contact and you will then see the owners e-mail address....

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... htm#MACHHT

foreigners who settled in Liverpool site, might help as well
allan

Post by **PJLong** » 26 Apr 2010 08:22

Any ideas very welcome.....thanks Allan!

Post by **garstonite** » 26 Apr 2010 08:27

Pauline...just added the Merseyside Aliens site....allan

Post by **PJLong** » 26 Apr 2010 11:45

Cor Blimey (or words of a similar type!) I didn't know that one existed either! Shall knuckle down later for a hunt.
Cheers,
Pauline.

Post by **dickiesam** » 26 Apr 2010 12:18

Hi,
The former city of Stettin, Germany, is now Szczecin, Poland.

Googled Stettin and got several interesting hits. Among them this one:
http://www.feefhs.org/links/Germany/ger ... gd-bi.html

Dickiesam

Post by **PJLong** » 26 Apr 2010 16:39

Tina....now here's a thing: 1911 census has George's missus (widow) as Elizabeth TOMAS! I'm sure in those days they knew how to spell the English "Thomas" so maybe she made a point of spelling it how it should be? Have asked for a marriage look up to hopefully find further clues to our George!

Post by **Tina** » 27 Apr 2010 05:48

You could be right PJ.
It would have been pronounced TOE..MASS
Good luck with LRO search.

Tina

Post by **Hilary** » 27 Apr 2010 17:52

One to pnder over

1871 census I cannot read address but it's RG10 3810 Folio 73 page 33
George Thomas H M 29 ropemaker
Elizabeth wife 22
George H son 6 months
Mary Jane Bridge sister in law 13
George Bridge bbrother in law 20
all bn Liverpool

This would appear to tie to the marriage at St Philips

and this possibility in 1861 at RG 09 2727 folio 126 page 45
George Thomas aged 20 single ropemaker born Liverpool as a lodger

Hilary
Ed Officer

PS which child of George and Elizabeth is your ancestor?

Post by **Hilary** » 27 Apr 2010 18:03

The George Thomas born in Greece on the 1881 census is a dock labourer and is older than the one of the marriage to Elizabeth Bridge. I suspect there are 2 different George Thomas both marrying an Elizabeth. However I think that if your ancestor is one of the children of the docl labourer born in Greece the marriage in St Philips is perhaps not the one you want.

Do you have a birth certificate for the child?

Hilary
Ed Officer

Post by **PJLong** » 28 Apr 2010 10:16

Hi Hilary,
Yes! Got those details very late last night and had come to the conclusion that "Greek George" was nothing to do with my friends family. BUT we know for certain that Sarah Jane Thomas is! It seems that her father is "Greek George" so I need now to spend time looking for a possible marriage of George the Greek to an Elizabeth around the same time. Up to my eyes in prep for hubby's return tomorrow so may have to take time out (darn!)
Thanks for input as always.
Pauline.

Post by **Tina** » 28 Apr 2010 10:54

see also PJs post
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9598

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