34 syren Street 1903

[pammie]

Hi this is my first post and I would love if you could help me! I have been reaserching my family history for a couple of weeks and have found out lots however my 91 year old nan really wants me to find the name of her granny. I have my great nan's wedding certificate from 1903 and it lists her dad's address as 34 Syren Street, my nan says they stayed there long after as she remembers it. His name was George Southern but I can not find who he was married to. There seems very little information about this family. My nan thinks they had 4 children (Annie, George, William and my nan's mum Elizabeth) Annie's surname was Collder not southern so may be from another marrage.
any help at all would be greatly appreciated
thanks
pam

[Tina]

Welcome aboard Pam

Tina

[Hilary]

Hi and welcome to family history.

You are luckier than some to immediately be working with names who will appear on the 1901 census. You say you have the wedding certificate for 1903.which as you say gives the lady's father's name. The certificate will give either the lady's age or say full age which means she said she was over 21. Armed with an approximate age for the lady and the father's name you need to look for a that pair in the 1901 census and probably the 1891 census and even the 1881 census depending on the age. The censuses can be found on Ancestry or Find my past and some other websites all of which are paying (except for 1881). However if you go to your local library you can look at them for free.

Having looked at your post again I see that Annie's surname is given as Collder but her fatehr as George Southern. As you say this could be a second marriage. I would also suggest you look on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk for a Collder/Southern marriage. I would also suggest you look for the birth registration of Annie Collder and then purchase her birth certificate. You could try www.freebmd.org.uk and www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

I would also suggest you look for Annie and her husband on the 1911 census (you will have to pay for this) and also find through the 1911 census who is at the address you give.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

Hi again

I can find no Collder marriages in the area. However the best I can find for Annie is on ww.freebmd.org.uk is

COALTER or COULTER Annie married either William Coakley or Henry George GASKIN 1903 Prescot registration district. Is this the marriage?

Hilary
Ed Officer

PS We need more information to help you. For instance who was the bridegroom - with that we might find the children's registrations and then find out Annie's name. There is a distinct shortage of COLLDERs! I found one!

[pammie]

Ok erm in 1903 when elizabeth married thomas pinnington she was 19 years old, she lived in 34 syren street and her father was george southern it lists rank or proffession as runner, they married in st pauls church north shore. My nan wants to know george's wife's name she says as far as she knows there were just the 4 children and her auntie annie second name was collder saying that she origionally thought her mum was southers not southern so it could be something similar (my nan is 91 so memory is not the best).
i have been on ansestry.co.uk and searched everything but keep getting blanks i have george born around 1958 and my nan doesnt think he was around when she was little (she was born in 1918) i have found a george southern in the 1861 census but no idea if it is him or not. i have searched the lancashire bmd for the names and havent found anything at all so i'm feeling hopelessly stuck!

[jan44]

Hi Pammie,

I have had a look at the 1901 census for 34 Syren St Kirkdale (on CD), is that the one?

The family listed there were surname Hebblethwaite. I also had a look at the 1911 directory for 34 Syren Street, they were not listed there then either.

Do you have the names of the witnesses on the marriage cert please?

Jan

[jan44]

The nearest I can get on the 1901 census is Elizth Southorn (as spelled on anc) bn about 1884 Bootle, she is a servant in Trinity Road Bootle.

RG13 3458 28 49

I can't find her in 1891, but I know a lot of the census for Bootle 1891 are missing.

Jan

[Hilary]

According to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk Thomas PINNINGTON married Elizabeth SOUTHERN in 1903 at St paul's North Shore Kirkdale. No other surname is given for Elizabeth. It might be worth going to Liverpool Central Library and looking at the marriage in the actual church register to see what name she gives in the church register and what she signs.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[jan44]

There is a George Southern listed in the 1911 directory at 9 Ceres St Kirkdale, but no occupation given, I think it was/is the next street to Syren Street (off Brasenose Road).

Jan

[Hilary]

This looks like a possible family in 1901 RG13 3471 180 15
18a Ebanar St Kirkdale
george Southern H M 43 cotton carter's runner bn Liverpool
Eliza wife 43 bn Liverpool
William son 14 bn Bootle
Robert son 19 bn Liverpool
Thomas son 8 bn Liverpool

Elizabeth is probably somewhere as a servant

I've not managed to find this family in 1891 yet

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

1891 census for the above family

18 Eleanor St Kirkdale maybe that's what the 1901 says!!
George SUTHERIN H M 38 carter (that's what it is indexed as)
Eliza wife 35
Ann daur 15
John James son 14
Edward son 12
ELIZA daur 7
George son 6
Richard son 4
William son 3
Robert son 1
all bn Liverpool

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Hilary]

1881 census 33 Arkwright St Everton
Eliza Colduck H widow 24 formerly match maker
Ann daur 5
John James 4
Edward 2
all bn Liverpool

Note names the same as first 3 in 1891

from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Eliza COLDUCK married George SUTHERN at St Peters Liverpool 1882

no alternative name given for Eliza so she was either not a widow or didn't give her previous name.

You need to look at this marriage in Liverpool Central Library and find out Eliza's father's name which should be her maiden surname.

Hilary
Ed Officer

PS at the moment you can tell Nan her great nan's first name was Eliza!

[jan44]

Great finds Hilary.

The 1901 for Southern is transcribed on anc as Sootlern.

I found that the George Southern in 1911 at 9 Ceres Street was still there in 1914 directory occupation Dock Labourer.

Jan

[Hilary]

I would suspect this is Elizabeth's brith registration Elizabeth SOUTHERN Sept Q West Derby registration district volume 8b page 623. This being the lady that married Thomas PINNINGTON

Ed Officer

[MaryA]

Hi Pammie and welcome to the forum.

Jan and Hilary - haven't you been having fun! Collder = Colduck haha phonetics!

I hope Pammie lives near enough to take a visit to the Record Office, luckily the churches are known for the marriages.

[Hilary]

There are a couple of possible marriages for Eliza to a Colduck

Edward COLDUCK married Elizabeth ISOW in 1872 at St peter Liverpool

Edward COLDUCK married Betsy COLDUCK at St George's Everton in 1873

You would need to look up both these marriages and see which one has the same father as Eliza Colduck on the marriage to George Southern

Edward COWLDUCK died Sept Q 1877 age 33 registered West Derby volume 8b page 270


Hilary
Ed Officer

[pammie]

There is a George Southern listed in the 1911 directory at 9 Ceres St Kirkdale, but no occupation given, I think it was/is the next street to Syren Street (off Brasenose Road).

Jan

oh my nan mentioned this street! does it say who lived there with him i think thats definately the one!

[pammie]

i just spoke to my nan she is so pleased to know her nan's name! Thank you all so much for your help! I will head down to the library next weekend to see it all, she said her mum was often know as lizer so it makes a lot of sense!
thank you everyone

[Hilary]

I'd just like to point out that all I have suggested is only a possibility. You could call it my theory. It needs careful checking and if I'm wrong I'm sorry. However that's family history for you. We all come up with good theories/ideas sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong.

Does anyone else have another theory?

Hilary
Ed Officer

[pammie]

i know its really confusing sometimes but its a better theory than i have so far!