Hi All,
I've been trying to trace the birth and the parents of my grt,grt,grt, Grandmother Ann Woodward b c.1802 in St Helens. On Family Search I have found an Ann Woodward born 1802 in Huyton. Does anyone know if Huyton was in the Parish of St Helens or the other way 'round in those days?
Ann married Thomas Corner on 23/12/1821 at All Saints Chilwall Liverpool. The roll of micro film for this church and period is not available at Liverpool R.O. I have contacted the church and they kindly looked at the marriage certificate for me, but it's the old type that does not give the Fathers name for either the Groom or Bride.
Can anyone help please?
Thank you,
Roy Montrose
Ann Woodward
Hi Roy,
It's a bit unlikely that St Helens and Huyton were linked, I suppose you got her birthplace from a census entry, have you found more than one census to confirm that it isn't an error?
Unfortunately I've been told that the All Saint's Childwall is one of those films that has "gone walkies" from the Liverpool RO - just who do people think they are purloining for their own use and depriving everybody else
However, I believe that there is a copy of it in the Huyton Library, if you decided to go and check it out, give them a call to confirm first.
Did the witnesses names give any clues? or have you any ideas of whether she had any siblings? You've come to a point where you need to look around at other ideas, check for any Wills, perhaps of a parent or sibling, rent books, burials etc.
It's a bit unlikely that St Helens and Huyton were linked, I suppose you got her birthplace from a census entry, have you found more than one census to confirm that it isn't an error?
Unfortunately I've been told that the All Saint's Childwall is one of those films that has "gone walkies" from the Liverpool RO - just who do people think they are purloining for their own use and depriving everybody else
However, I believe that there is a copy of it in the Huyton Library, if you decided to go and check it out, give them a call to confirm first.Did the witnesses names give any clues? or have you any ideas of whether she had any siblings? You've come to a point where you need to look around at other ideas, check for any Wills, perhaps of a parent or sibling, rent books, burials etc.
MaryA
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Roymontrose
Hi Mary,
Thank you for your reply and comments. I've found Anne on 4 Census'. The 1841 gives her as born in this county (Lancashire). the 1851/61 Census' both give her birthplace as Eccleston Lancashire and the 1871 Census gives her birthplace as St Helens, all Census' give her birthyear as 1802. So, her place of birth and year of birth information is pretty consistant. Since my posting I have found a Baptism for an Ann Woodward on Lancashire on Line Parish Clerk in Prescot as follows:
Name: Ann Woodward
Date Baptised: 19/4/1801
Place: St Mary the Virgin Prescot.
Parents: Abel and Mary Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Fathers Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptism's 1766-1809, Page 160, Entry A6, Source LDS, Film 1657583, Item 8.
In addition I have a baptism from IGI for an Ann Woodward
Born: 13/12/1801
Baptised: 10/1/1802
Place: Huyton Lancashire
Parents: John and Mary Woodward
There is one link that may be relevant, on the Prescot Baptism Ann's Father's Christian name is Abel and my Ann had a Son born c.1842 and called him Abel, this of course may just be coincidental.
There is a Gentleman called Neil Thomas who seems to look after the records at All Saints Childwall who I have spoken to on the 'phone who kindly looked at the marriage certificate for me and told me it did not include either Ann's or Thomas's parents name. He did promise to have a look at the name's of the witness' and get back to me, but he never did.
I wil check out Huyton Library and see if they have a copy of the marriage Cert.
Thanks again for your help,
Regards,
Roy Montrose
Thank you for your reply and comments. I've found Anne on 4 Census'. The 1841 gives her as born in this county (Lancashire). the 1851/61 Census' both give her birthplace as Eccleston Lancashire and the 1871 Census gives her birthplace as St Helens, all Census' give her birthyear as 1802. So, her place of birth and year of birth information is pretty consistant. Since my posting I have found a Baptism for an Ann Woodward on Lancashire on Line Parish Clerk in Prescot as follows:
Name: Ann Woodward
Date Baptised: 19/4/1801
Place: St Mary the Virgin Prescot.
Parents: Abel and Mary Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Fathers Occupation: Husbandman
Register: Baptism's 1766-1809, Page 160, Entry A6, Source LDS, Film 1657583, Item 8.
In addition I have a baptism from IGI for an Ann Woodward
Born: 13/12/1801
Baptised: 10/1/1802
Place: Huyton Lancashire
Parents: John and Mary Woodward
There is one link that may be relevant, on the Prescot Baptism Ann's Father's Christian name is Abel and my Ann had a Son born c.1842 and called him Abel, this of course may just be coincidental.
There is a Gentleman called Neil Thomas who seems to look after the records at All Saints Childwall who I have spoken to on the 'phone who kindly looked at the marriage certificate for me and told me it did not include either Ann's or Thomas's parents name. He did promise to have a look at the name's of the witness' and get back to me, but he never did.
I wil check out Huyton Library and see if they have a copy of the marriage Cert.
Thanks again for your help,
Regards,
Roy Montrose
Huyton Parish/Childwall
The Parish Church for Huyton is St Michael. Records on microfiche at Huyton.
Huyton have a copy of Childwall Parish Registers including the one that has gone walkies at Liverpool.
Huyton have a copy of Childwall Parish Registers including the one that has gone walkies at Liverpool.
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator
Strays Co-ordinator
Ann Woodward
Hi Roy
I would say the Prescot baptism is most likely. Did Abel and Mary have any more children. You could also see if Abel Woodward left a will when he died Liverpool record office have indexes up to 1837 for Lancashire wills.
I would say the Prescot baptism is most likely. Did Abel and Mary have any more children. You could also see if Abel Woodward left a will when he died Liverpool record office have indexes up to 1837 for Lancashire wills.
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator
Strays Co-ordinator
I would think the same as Katie, with birthplace Sutton and child named Abel, I would pin my money on that one.
When I was looking for a burial at All Saints I took a chance and went along to the church on Sunday afternoon when they have a guided tour, unfortunately the "guide" didn't turn up that day although two other parishioners did, one of whom looked after the graveyard - and very well it was kept too. He arranged for me to meet somebody who had the keys to the cupboard inside the church where the registers were kept and I was allowed to take a photograph of the entry I was interested in.
Not only that, but the man who did the gardening managed to work out which was the place of my grave and cleared it of moss so that it could be seen, very faded, but there nevertheless.
Try again, it might be worth it.
When I was looking for a burial at All Saints I took a chance and went along to the church on Sunday afternoon when they have a guided tour, unfortunately the "guide" didn't turn up that day although two other parishioners did, one of whom looked after the graveyard - and very well it was kept too. He arranged for me to meet somebody who had the keys to the cupboard inside the church where the registers were kept and I was allowed to take a photograph of the entry I was interested in.
Not only that, but the man who did the gardening managed to work out which was the place of my grave and cleared it of moss so that it could be seen, very faded, but there nevertheless.
Try again, it might be worth it.
MaryA
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I too would go with Abel Woodward. The 1841 census has Abel aged 60 living at Gerards Bridge hamlet of Hardshaw near Pocket Nook Windle which we would describe as part of St Helens now. St Helens and Eccleston were then both within the parish of Prescot. The 1851 census shows him at Pocket Nook aged 72 with his wife Margaret aged 64. he was born Windle she was born Prescot. Abel possibly died 1859 (no age on index at that time). Margaret possibly died 1856. As Abel is described as a preoprietor of houses in 1851 he may well have left a will. If he died in 1859 this is post 1858 when wills were proved in the civil courts not the church courts. The index to the post 1858 wills are at Liverpool Record office. If you find he left a will you can either apply to the Sub porbate Registry at York for a copy which will cost £5 or go to lancashire Record Office where you can see handwritten copies in large tomes of wills proved at Liverpool.
Hilary
Hilary
I don't know if these will confuse the issue
Baptisms at St Helens Chapel
20 Feb 1779 Abel s. Thos. Woodward, glassmaker, S 17 Feb 1779
26 Sep 1802 Sarah d. Abel Woodward, labr., S 20 Sep 1802
20 Apr 1806 Isaac s. Abel Woodward, labr., S 17 Mar 1806
03 Jan 1808 Abel s. Abel Woodward, labr., S 12 Nov 1808
(The S is for Sutton)
Baptisms at St Helens Chapel
20 Feb 1779 Abel s. Thos. Woodward, glassmaker, S 17 Feb 1779
26 Sep 1802 Sarah d. Abel Woodward, labr., S 20 Sep 1802
20 Apr 1806 Isaac s. Abel Woodward, labr., S 17 Mar 1806
03 Jan 1808 Abel s. Abel Woodward, labr., S 12 Nov 1808
(The S is for Sutton)
MaryA
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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
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Ann Woodward/Ann Corner
The Prescot Baptism is the correct one have the will details which I will post later
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator
Strays Co-ordinator
-
Roymontrose
Hi All,
A great big thank you to you all for the time and effort you've put in.
I 'phoned Huyton Library yesterday afternoon and they do have the All Saints marriage records on fiche for the period I'm looking for, so I will pay them a visit in the next day or two (when I can wrench the car from my other half !!). I'm hoping the witness' names on the certificate may tell me something.
Ref. Education Officers information on Abel on the 1841/51 Census', the parents of Ann Woodward's Baptism at St Mary the Virgin Prescot are given as Abel and Mary Woodward, not Abel and Margaret? I agree with the opinion that it's probably Prescot, which is a major step forward for me.
On IGI I have found a marriage for Abel Woodward and Mary Fryer on 23rd June 1791 at Huyton by Roby. The only children I can find on IGI born to Abel Woodward and Mary ?????? are: Elizabeth b.2/8/1792 and Ellen b.25/8/1795, both born in Huyton, none of which line up with Mary's Names or place of Baptism.
Katie's got me excited now with her find on the Will, can't wait!!
Once again, thanks to all,
Roy Montrose
A great big thank you to you all for the time and effort you've put in.
I 'phoned Huyton Library yesterday afternoon and they do have the All Saints marriage records on fiche for the period I'm looking for, so I will pay them a visit in the next day or two (when I can wrench the car from my other half !!). I'm hoping the witness' names on the certificate may tell me something.
Ref. Education Officers information on Abel on the 1841/51 Census', the parents of Ann Woodward's Baptism at St Mary the Virgin Prescot are given as Abel and Mary Woodward, not Abel and Margaret? I agree with the opinion that it's probably Prescot, which is a major step forward for me.
On IGI I have found a marriage for Abel Woodward and Mary Fryer on 23rd June 1791 at Huyton by Roby. The only children I can find on IGI born to Abel Woodward and Mary ?????? are: Elizabeth b.2/8/1792 and Ellen b.25/8/1795, both born in Huyton, none of which line up with Mary's Names or place of Baptism.
Katie's got me excited now with her find on the Will, can't wait!!
Once again, thanks to all,
Roy Montrose
Woodward
Evening All
The baptism in IGI for 1802 Huyton was the d/o John & Mary no maiden.
Through the batch there is also Ellen in 1799.
The family name is entrenched in Huyton.
1841 census has John Woodward 65 labr in Huyton with Sarah 20.
1851 poor chap is 75 a patient in Lpool Infirmary.
Tina
The baptism in IGI for 1802 Huyton was the d/o John & Mary no maiden.
Through the batch there is also Ellen in 1799.
The family name is entrenched in Huyton.
1841 census has John Woodward 65 labr in Huyton with Sarah 20.
1851 poor chap is 75 a patient in Lpool Infirmary.
Tina
- Tina
Cornthwaite,Milburn,Coll,Gaffney,Pearce,Singleton,Hazlehurst,Cuthbert,Mackintosh,McAllister,Morana, Corfield
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Katie's a pain, she didn't tell me she had checked the Probate Register before I did, so she's too late, I have it now, but she says I can do the typing!!
21 May 1859 Abel Woodward
The Will of Abel Woodward formerly of Parr and late of Sutton both in the County of Lancaster Yeoman deceased who died 10 May 1859 at Sutton aforesaid was proved at Liverpool by the oaths of Isaac Woodward of Parsons Lane near Oldbury in the County of Salop Wheelwright the son and Ann Corner (wife of Thomas Corner of 11 Hurst Street West Derby near Liverpool in the said County Ropemaker) the daughter the Executors.
21 May 1859 Abel Woodward
The Will of Abel Woodward formerly of Parr and late of Sutton both in the County of Lancaster Yeoman deceased who died 10 May 1859 at Sutton aforesaid was proved at Liverpool by the oaths of Isaac Woodward of Parsons Lane near Oldbury in the County of Salop Wheelwright the son and Ann Corner (wife of Thomas Corner of 11 Hurst Street West Derby near Liverpool in the said County Ropemaker) the daughter the Executors.
MaryA
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Roymontrose
Great result
Roy if want a copy of the will this is how to get one
To look at the actual will you have 2 options you can see copies of the wills handwritten into large volumes at Lancashire Record office up to around the 1930's. However they cannot photocopy them but you can take a photo but it costs £5 a day to use a camera. If you want a copy of the will after 1858 onwards you can apply by post for a copy to the sub probate office in York. I like this one better as you then have your own copy. This website tells you how and has a downloadable form.
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/info ... /index.htm
It costs £5 to get a copy this way.
Hilary
Ed Officer
Roy if want a copy of the will this is how to get one
To look at the actual will you have 2 options you can see copies of the wills handwritten into large volumes at Lancashire Record office up to around the 1930's. However they cannot photocopy them but you can take a photo but it costs £5 a day to use a camera. If you want a copy of the will after 1858 onwards you can apply by post for a copy to the sub probate office in York. I like this one better as you then have your own copy. This website tells you how and has a downloadable form.
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/info ... /index.htm
It costs £5 to get a copy this way.
Hilary
Ed Officer
-
northmeols
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- Posts: 897
- Joined: 18 Oct 2006 22:52
just checking around.....do you have Abel burial at St Nicholas, Sutton on 12 april 1859
also
marriage Abel Woodward to Mary Johnson 24 sep 1800 St Mary Virgin, Prescott. witnesses John Bellion and james bradshaw. 3 children at that church Ann 15 Apr 1801, John 27 jun 1804, Mary 21 dec 1810.
that I could find.
also
marriage Abel Woodward to Mary Johnson 24 sep 1800 St Mary Virgin, Prescott. witnesses John Bellion and james bradshaw. 3 children at that church Ann 15 Apr 1801, John 27 jun 1804, Mary 21 dec 1810.
that I could find.
southport woman long way from home. aka "Tide is always out at Southport Wombat"
Rimmer, Unsworth, Hough, Lee, Quine, Howarth, Johnson, Bromilow, Bigland, Cullen, Clague, Orme, Walker, Livesey, Stone
Rimmer, Unsworth, Hough, Lee, Quine, Howarth, Johnson, Bromilow, Bigland, Cullen, Clague, Orme, Walker, Livesey, Stone
When I first saw that I thought "Great! even pinned down the grave" but on checking the Probate entry it said "who died 10 May 1859 ".northmeols wrote:just checking around.....do you have Abel burial at St Nicholas, Sutton on 12 april 1859
There must have been two Abels in Sutton at about the same time, Roy is going to have to be careful to sort them out, also the children, who also may be from two families.
MaryA
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Roymontrose
Hi All,
Thanks for the info on obtaining Abel Woodwards will Hilary, I'll probably send for it.
Sue, I had my Abel Woodward down as marrying Mary Fryer in 1791 (IGI) at Huyton by Roby but the marriage you've found of Abel Woodward and Mary Johnson makes more sense given that Ann Woodward was baptised at the same church they married i.e. St Mary the Virgin Prescot.
Mary's right, there are two Abel Woodwards who married a Mary both living in the same area. There are a couple things that cloud the issue though, e.g. my Ann Woodward was baptised at St Mary the Virgin on 19/4/1801 while Sue has an Ann baptised there 15/4/1901. Is this a different Ann or has one of us made a mistake on the date? I'll check this again.
Mary found 4 baptism's at St Helens Chapel with the Father being Abel Woodward, one of the children was Isaac Woodward. Isaac's baptism date is 20/4/1806 which is about the right year for the Isaac named on Abel's will.
Another small point is that Abel married Mary Johnson on 24th September 1800, Ann was born before 15/19th April 1801 (her baptism date) did Abel do the honourable thing???
Any thoughts on the above information would be greatly appreciated,
Regards,
Roy Mongtrose
Thanks for the info on obtaining Abel Woodwards will Hilary, I'll probably send for it.
Sue, I had my Abel Woodward down as marrying Mary Fryer in 1791 (IGI) at Huyton by Roby but the marriage you've found of Abel Woodward and Mary Johnson makes more sense given that Ann Woodward was baptised at the same church they married i.e. St Mary the Virgin Prescot.
Mary's right, there are two Abel Woodwards who married a Mary both living in the same area. There are a couple things that cloud the issue though, e.g. my Ann Woodward was baptised at St Mary the Virgin on 19/4/1801 while Sue has an Ann baptised there 15/4/1901. Is this a different Ann or has one of us made a mistake on the date? I'll check this again.
Mary found 4 baptism's at St Helens Chapel with the Father being Abel Woodward, one of the children was Isaac Woodward. Isaac's baptism date is 20/4/1806 which is about the right year for the Isaac named on Abel's will.
Another small point is that Abel married Mary Johnson on 24th September 1800, Ann was born before 15/19th April 1801 (her baptism date) did Abel do the honourable thing???
Any thoughts on the above information would be greatly appreciated,
Regards,
Roy Mongtrose
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Roymontrose
Hi All,
Thanks Kate, it's much appreciated.
Find attached the following information taken from Lancashire On Line Clerk Project.
St Mary the Virgin, Prescot
Marriage: 24 Sep 1800 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Abel Woodward - (X), Husbandman bachelor of Sutton
Mary Johnson - spinster of Sutton
Witness: John Bellion; James Bradshaw
Married by Banns by: Samuel Sewell, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1788 - 1812, Page 73, Entry 433
Source: LDS Film 1657584 item 10
As per Sue's informatgion.
Baptism: 22 Jul 1804 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Woodward - Son of Abel Woodward & Mary
Born: 27 Jun 1804
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 176, Entry 10
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8
This could be the Mary baptised at St Mary the Virgin 21st December 1810.
Burial: 13 Nov 1811 St Mary the Virgn, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Woodward - Daur of Abel Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Source: LDS Film 1657583
Death of Abel's Wife Mary?
Burial: 3 Jan 1812 St Mary the Virgn, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Woodward - Wife of Abel Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Source: LDS Film 1657583
There is also an Abel who died in 1826 this looks like it could be the Abel baptised 12 November 1808 at St Helens Chapel, his age is about right.
Burial: 26 Dec 1826 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Abel Woodward -
Age: 19 years
Abode: Sutton
Buried by: George Greaves - Curate
Register: Burials 1826 - 1836, Page 7, Entry 49
Source: LDS Film 1657597 item 7
I think this information will help clarify some things but I need to take a closer look and make some sense of it,
regards,
Roy Montrose
Thanks Kate, it's much appreciated.
Find attached the following information taken from Lancashire On Line Clerk Project.
St Mary the Virgin, Prescot
Marriage: 24 Sep 1800 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Abel Woodward - (X), Husbandman bachelor of Sutton
Mary Johnson - spinster of Sutton
Witness: John Bellion; James Bradshaw
Married by Banns by: Samuel Sewell, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1788 - 1812, Page 73, Entry 433
Source: LDS Film 1657584 item 10
As per Sue's informatgion.
Baptism: 22 Jul 1804 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Woodward - Son of Abel Woodward & Mary
Born: 27 Jun 1804
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 176, Entry 10
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8
This could be the Mary baptised at St Mary the Virgin 21st December 1810.
Burial: 13 Nov 1811 St Mary the Virgn, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Woodward - Daur of Abel Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Source: LDS Film 1657583
Death of Abel's Wife Mary?
Burial: 3 Jan 1812 St Mary the Virgn, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Woodward - Wife of Abel Woodward
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Source: LDS Film 1657583
There is also an Abel who died in 1826 this looks like it could be the Abel baptised 12 November 1808 at St Helens Chapel, his age is about right.
Burial: 26 Dec 1826 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Abel Woodward -
Age: 19 years
Abode: Sutton
Buried by: George Greaves - Curate
Register: Burials 1826 - 1836, Page 7, Entry 49
Source: LDS Film 1657597 item 7
I think this information will help clarify some things but I need to take a closer look and make some sense of it,
regards,
Roy Montrose