Lucas/Dodd - opinions please

[kwr]

To save expert time I have the following

The IGI has James Lucas marrying Jane Dodd - 11.10.1827 in Holy Trinity, Liverpool.

Her birth 15.5.1806 in St. Nicholas. Parents Samuel and Margaret.

His birthdate? Cannot be sure - there are at least three possibles:-
1.) 25.8.1804
2.) 2.11.06 - I incline to this as the parents' names are James/Martha....
3.) 16.10.1808.

They subsequently have:-
Margaret Jane born 1828, Martha Ann in 1831, James 1833, Samuel Dodd Lucas born according to IGI in 1834 and John possibly the March quarter of 1838.

The last child John I found (I think ) in the 1841 census.

Census ref:- HO107/566/21/7/line 20.

James Lucas is not there so he may have moved out, died, or be away. I don't seem able to find him in 1851 either. When his daughter Martha marries, the certificate has him as a file cutter but it does not actually say "deceased" - though he may be. I haven't sent for the marriage certificate of Margaret Jane to Charles Rockett (also a file cutter) but am tempted to do so simply to see if it has the same information.....

In the census the age given for Samuel Dodd Lucas is 4 making him born in 1837 whereas the IGI has him born in 1834. Do I have the right family in this census? I think I have....but I'd welcome other opinions.

It may be simple incompetence but although I have Margaret Jane Rockett, as she becomes, in the 1851,61, and 71 censuses AND Martha (Taylor) over the same period, I cannot trace the mother Jane, nor Samuel Dodd Lucas nor John Lucas.

There are according to FreeBMD two James Lucas deaths:-

Liverpool Dec. Quarter 1838 20 212
West Derby March quarter 1839 20 793

I cannot find a Jane Lucas marrying between 1841 and 1851 but there are FIVE Jane Dodd marriages over the same time span. I'm loathe to send for them - cheapjack that I am.

That's it really - I appreciate the way contributors pick over the details and come up with insightful comments so please do so!

One last little thing. In the 1851 census Martha Lucas is still unmarried but her place of birth is interesting - "at sea in a steamship". Subsequently in 1861 it is boringly amended to Liverpool.
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Ken

[dickiesam]

Hello Ken,
Re the birth of the youngest child John..
Births Mar 1838: LUCAS, John - West Derby - 20 - 673.
Births Jun 1840: Lucas, John - W Derby - 20 - 911.
Births Sep 1840: Lucas, John Robert - West Derby - 20 - 826.

The first one looks to be the most likely. As for age/YoB differences for Samuel in the IGI, I have come across several. Very often the data is submitted by a third party without a documentary check and the CLDS do not vet any submissions for accuracy.

Re James Lucas not being in the 1841 or 1851.. I know you have listed a couple of deaths in your post and here's my 'selection'. If he died it would be after John's conception and before census night 1841, so:
Deaths Dec 1838: Lucas, James - Liverpool - 20 - 212.
Deaths Mar 1839: Lucas, James - West Derby - 20 - 793.
Deaths Mar 1841: LUCAS, James - Prescot - 20 - 627.

While we all hate the thought of sending for certs with the chance they are incorrect, sometimes we have no choice. If you order from the GRO, use the Reference Checking facility and enter info such as parents' names for a birth, and occupation for a death. By doing that if the reference you have used doesn't match the checking info the GRO will only charge you £4 for the search instead of £7 for a wrong cert.

However, if he didn't die this might be him. The census page gives his occupation as "File M"! Coupled with the age I'd be happy this is him. Need to try and find a connection to the householders Robert and Elizabeth Owens if possible. But, perhaps sheer lack of space caused him to move out of the family home?
LUCAS, James - 34 - 1807 - Lancashire.
RG number: HO107 - Piece: 563 - Book/Folio: 9/41 - Page: 23.

Re Martha's marriage cert.. The entry 'deceased' where the father is dead isn't always on the cert. Seems to depend on the whim of the Registrar.

Cheers,
Dickiesam

[Gray]

Hi Ken,

I think your inclination as to James Lucas year of birth is correct.

James Lucas
From the OPC site.

James Lucas baptism 7/12/1806 St Nicholas
Son of James Lucas and Martha (formerly Birchall)
Born 2/11/1806
Abode: Crosshall street
Occ: TILE cutter
Register baptisms 1806 Page 56 entry 1
Source LDS film 1068889

Says Tile cutter as occupation?? not sure which/who is correct file/tilecutter, Marriage cert or OPC.


Gray

[kwr]

Dickiesam+Gray

As usual.......feel stupid. Why couldn't I find/think like you two? I've just looked over the recent posts and as usual marvel at the range of knowledge and interest shown.

I can only (yet again) say thank you for your contributions.
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Ken

[MaryA]

Great work guys, a second opinion is always worth asking for, we get bogged down in our own problems and often can't see the wood for the trees.