Liverpool taverns

[warrinerdisbury]

Several of my Warriner ancestors ran pubs in the mid 18c and I wondered if there was a cataloglue of old photographs I could look at.
The most significant for me was The Beresford Arms in Beresford St, the Crown Vaults Richmond Row, the American stores/Spirit vaults in Essex St and the Freemasons tavern in Copperas Hill. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Sheila

[daggers]

Do you mean 19th century? No photos likely for 18th!!!
The Liverpool Record Office has many photos of pubs especially if they were latterly owned by Tetley Walker, whose collection was passed on to LRO.
There are also books published in the 1990s, written by Freddy O'Connor: 'A Pub on Every Corner', with volumes on central, south, etc. with some of the same photos plus others.

In 1909 the city's official licensing book shows an unnamed pub at 20 Beresford St, managed by Rees Morgan, owned by R. Cain & Son, later Walker Cain.
Richmond Row had 9 pubs in 1909, none called the Crown Vaults.
Essex St had three, none called Amercian stores or spirit vaults.
Copperas Hill had 4, none called the Freemasons.

That said, 1909 is late for your people; also pub names were often changed, and it might take some delving into [microfilmed] directories to fix the locations. Do you have any more exact addresses such as street number?
D

[warrinerdisbury]

Sorry to cause confusion. I wasn't expecting photos from the 18c I was hoping that the pubs had survived into the 19c before being demolished. The Beresford Arms was on the corner of Prince Edwin St and Beresford Road and mentioned as the pub run by Isaiah Warriner in 1861, on the census and Gore's directory.
The crown vaults is mentioned in Gore's as the pub David Warriner ran at this time and another brother Edward had the American stores/Spirit vaults at 66 Essex St. Yet another brother, Joseph had the Freemasons tavern at 66 Copperas Hill. Two of the brothers bought part of Cains brewery in either Wilton St or Seel St in 1854. I would love to know anything more about any of this info.
Thanks Sheila

[daggers]

Sheila
Not photos, but possibly helpful?

"A Gazetteer of Liverpool Breweries" by John Barge [1987] is made up of extracts from Liverpool Directories. It has these references to Warriners:
Ann & David W...: 2 Islington Row, Wilton Street 1868-76; 10 Wilton St 1869; (2 Islington Row was St George's Hotel in 1887).
David W...: 2 Islington Row, Wilton St. 1875-76.
Joseph W...: 63 Copperas Hill (also a PH) 1873.
M & D W...: 2 Back Seel St 1860-62; 2 Islington Row 1864-73.
Wm W... & Co.: 2 Islington Row 1871-73.

None of these addresses were pubs in 1909.
There is a history of Cains Brewery which was published quite recently. I shall have a look in case there is anything about Wilton St or Seel St., but this will be when I can get to the central library. We had a couple of inches of snow this morning, but it seems to be thawing fast, so I should be OK this week.
D

[warrinerdisbury]

This is wonderful. Thankyou very much. I think I will check all the census again as I may have taken the wrong numbers as the address.
I have an article about the small brewery purchase from Cains that I found on the net. I find it very interesting as all these Warriner men came over from Redmire in the Dales and had been lead miners before starting their Liverpool life. David W, whom I believe may been the most successful, eventually went to New Orleans with his family.
My great grannddad x 2 Isaiah Warriner died at only 47 and he was still a publican at 13 Soho St in 1866.
Not snowing here I am glad to say as I had to take the dog out and didn't fancy sliding all over the place again.
Cheers
Sheila

[daggers]

Sheila
Do you have access to 19th century newspapers online, which many county libraries allow via members' card numbers?

There are heaps of references to Warriners in the Liverpool Mercury; I have looked at some between 1843 and 1865, finding mentions of a cowkeeper, a draper & tailor, an engineer, several of your licensees, birth, marriage & death notices and a young lady bailed for a serious offence [allegedly], but no follow-up report. There are more in later years but I have not looked at them.

I expect you have seen the entries in the 1881 census, too.

D

[Tina]

1853 Gores/Kellys Directory

David Warriner victualler 1 Dickinson St
Matthew Warriner spirit dealer 1 Gt George Pl

Good luck Sheila

Tina

[warrinerdisbury]

Thanks for all your help guys. So far I have only managed one afternoon in the Liverpool library as I live in Worcester. When I was there I found a few things that helped support the census info I get from ancestry.
I realise now that I am scratching the barrel which is wonderful news as I really want to find out more about these people (good or bad).
I will find out if I can read the Mercury online as when I was in the library I found the death notice in there, for Isaiah Warriner, my gg x 2 who died September 22nd 1866 at his home in Soho St. He was still a publican when he died and on the certificate it said he died from cerebral effusion and albumineria. I was wondering whether any foul play was involved as he was only 47 but I guess that wasn't so young in those days.
So much to do so little time
Sheila

[MaryA]

This might be a help to you

Online access to old newspapers

and if you manage to visit Liverpool Record Office again, although you may well know your way around, but if you think you might like advice and help while you are there, the Society hosts a Help Desk on Tuesday afternoons.

[warrinerdisbury]

Thank you. I will bear that in mind. I am going to follow your link now.
Cheers Sheila

[daggers]

Sheila
The reference in the book on Cains history is brief: on page 25 Robert Cain 'purchased a larger brewery on Wilton Street....and the Limekiln Lane premises were leased and later sold to brewers David and Mathew Warrinder.' This was in or soon after 1854.
The book is 'Cains, the story of Liverpool in a pint' by Christopher Routledge, 2008, Liverpool University Press.

Let me know if you do not get access to the 19th C newspapers, as some of the snippets I picked up will be of interest and I will summarise them for you.

Wensleydale seems to have sent a lot of families to Liverpool where they became cow-keepers/milk sellers, including some of your Warrinders. There have been threads on this before, I think, or perhaps articles in the LFHS Journal.
D

[warrinerdisbury]

Yes you are right. I think Robert Warriner returned to cowkeeping after a short spell in the pub trade as did Edward c 1871. It was yet another sibling Roger who went into tailoring and passed that down to his offspring.
My ggx2 Isaiah had 10 siblings and they had 49 children between them,
possibly more. It is very easy to be distracted from my direct line as it is all so interesting.
I will order the book from my library here. It should give some interesting info about brewing in that period.
Bye for now
Sheila

Member 7960

[colette]

Hi Sheila

On one corner of Beresford & Prince Edwin St you had this pub called the Talbot Arms no 49






However on the other corner at no 50 was this pub which i think could be the Beresford Arms...

URL=http://img85.imageshack.us/i/imgp0586.jpg/][/URL]


At the other end was a pub called the Beresford..but ajoing another street


URL=http://img707.imageshack.us/i/imgp0591.jpg/][/URL]

Regarding the Crown Vaults not in my pub book..the American Stores/Spirit Vaults on Essex St was Toxteth i dont have the Liverpool South pub book sorry.. and there wa sno images of Freemasons Tavern on Copperas Hill..





xx

[daggers]

One of the Warriner references in the Liverpool Mercury was to the "Masons Arms", Copperas Hill, which was acquired and demolished by the London & North Western Railway in connection with the enlargement of Lime St Station [1876].
There are also references to Roger W as a freemason, but this may be coincidence [1878-80]. Numerous transfers of pub licences between Warriners and others are reported in the various transfer sessions.

[Tina]

Hi
In the olden days, Aluminuria had to do with kidney function and eventually caused heart failure.
They didn't know then it was a protein in the blood & very high in some people in their urine.
I doubt there was foul play.

Tina

[warrinerdisbury]

Thank you all for helping me with this.
My father (now 87 but not the longest living Warriner by far I am glad to say) will be thrilled. I expect to be in Liverpool at the weekend so we will doubtless be out and about taking photos.

I am quite overwhelmed with the replies and so glad I found this group.
I can't go out today... too much to do!
Cheers everyone
Sheila