John Henry Alber Tuttle

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Many thanks for the latest information on both John Todd and possibly John Henry Tuttle. As you say,its nice to actually see both of them together. I guess now we have to see if we can actually find John Henry's birth record. Would the Mormon site perhaps have this information, and would you know the name of the website and the address?
I will be applying for the marriage certificate of John Perks and Elisabeth Thomas tonight and as you say this should tell us if Elisabeth is recorded as a widow - as I live in Australia, the certificate normally two weeks to arrive.
I went onto Ancestry.com and went into the Public Tree site - I typed in all the details on Abigail Doolittle and up came a lot of information - including the fact that Bethuel Tuttle (John Todd's father) did remarry on
10/1/1808 - he married Julia Doolittle (1786 - 1864) - first wife Hannah English died in 1807 - didn't take him long to remarry!
Regards - Denise

[colette]

Hi Denise

The Mormon site is www.familysearch.org.. but i cant see a bap for him..records could be missing...dont forget we are talking about 1833 if John was 17 in 1850...

As for the Charles Tuttle who was with them in 1850 ancestrys world tree has him down son of Bethuel & Julia.. it says he married in the 1870's
to an Helen Rogers..he would have been in his 70's its a bit odd dont you think.. and i dont know whos submitted this info..but if its true.. it doesn't look like he had any kids.. Which is good for us.. meaning John can't be his.

Been trying to find this Charles on the 1860 & 1870 also 1880 USA census as they say he died in 1882..not having much luck..

Think we need someone to check John Henry Tuttle marriages in the New York area..1850-1860..I have had a look through Familysearch site but can't see one i would say is him...

But its possitive that we have found a John..


xx

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Many thanks for replying so quickly. The web address on your previous email that you suggested I click on and scroll down - what was I supposed to see - or rather what part was I to click on?
I can't believe that you have actually found what looks to be John Henry - it's great news, hopefully someone can find him - a birth, marriage or something.
Regards - Denise

[colette]

Hi Denise

if you click on view full article its Legal Notices..old New York Times items.. SCROLL DOWN TILL YOU FIND IT..TOWARDS THE END... its Pursuance Of An Order John Todd Tuttle was the Executor..1855.

I am getting some help from some people on Rootschat they have access to US records you see..
xx

[colette]

Hi Denise

1870 New York Ward 19 District 3, New York
Charles Tuttle 61
Helen Tuttle 26 Born 16 Nov 1844 Milford New Haven according to info given on anc..try
Maria Campbell 24
Bridget Somers 26



Charles is described as widowed on the 1880 census living with brother Isaac. Helen Louise Rogers/Tuttle having died in 1875

so he definalty had no kids.. and Helen was much younger.

I have contacted a Sheryl who had Charles & Isaac Henry in her tree.. sons of Bethuel's second marriage..to see if she knows anything..

Trying to get an 1840 Federal census lookup at present.. for John T..

XX

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Many thanks for the ongoing information - I cannot believe what you have uncovered so far - I am looking forward to the next exciting installment!!Re Charles Tuttle - as you say - his wife Helen Rogers was certainly a lot younger than him. I wonder who the mother of John Tuttle (born Conn) and aged 17 in 1850? I know in the 1859 census you say that it lists John T, George William, Charles (Half brother) John T (aged 17), etc and Sarah Tuttle, (John Todd's wife) then Ida and Margaret Tuttle, but when you found John Todd Tuttle before, there was no John Henry - what a strange family I seem to have.
I cannot thank you enough for all the trouble you have gone to, even to the extent of contacting other people - you never know what else might come to light.
Regards - Denise

[colette]

Hi Denise

I am enjoying it as i love a mystery.. the people on here will tell you i wont stop till i get something.. haaaaaaaaaaaaaa..I said all along that the gap between all John Todd Tuttles kids was rather big.. so could have been others.. now this JOHN seems to fit in there..

If we cant find a death for him in Liverpool or Lancashire.. wonder did he up and leave and go back the States.. And i still want to know what Elizabeth A was doing in Hulme nr Manchester and her son Richard left with Gorton Family in Pendlebury..Elizabeth cant have been far away from him..after all she could have left him with her father David Thomas in Hopwood St Liverpool but chose not too.. odd dont you think

I am wondering about these 1871 Gomer St Lpool

John Perkes aged 24 occ Porter b Lpool
Elizabeth A age 27 occ Corker b Lpool

Was thinking she could have been wih John Longer than we think.

I guess we should try and find this couple in 1881..just to take them out of the frame...

John Perks is an odd one too in 1881 he says born Glossop and 1891 North Wales.. so can't really find one who fits the bill going backwards.

So many questions haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


xx

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
I am wondering if there are two John Perks, because you quoted in 1881 Wakefield St,Liverpool John Verks (spelt wrong) age 36 and wife ElizabethA age 27 but today you quoted that in 1871 John Perkes (different spelling with an extra e in it and his age was 24 and her age 27(different age than the previous ages) - odd don't you think.
Regards - Denise

[colette]

Hi Denise

Yes its looking like the John Perks & Elizabeth A in Gomer St 1871 and the John Verks & Elizabeth A in Wakefield St 1881 are the same couple NOT yours..He was born in Liverpool as was she..

So we have Anglesea rd 1881 & Linton St 1891 for your couple..I was just making sure they were not together sooner than 1879.

If thats the case Elizabeth A should still be called Tuttle in 1871..now Richard Lloyd wasn't in Pendlebury till 1881..so Elizabeth should be in Liverpool in 1871...But i still want to know why she moved up that way and did she meet John Perks there ..it seems to make sense if they married there.

One big prob we have is what if she is calling herself THOMAS..in 1871 theres loads of them

xx

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
I agree with you, it will be interesting to see what name Elisabeth A calls herself on her marriage certificate - Thomas or Tuttle - do you know when John Perks passed away? I can't find him. As I said, it normally takes at least two weeks for certificates to be mailed to Australia, so I guess we will just have to wait. Have you heard any more from your friends in America?
I also have a query on another side of my family, I will post a seperate query soon.
Regards - Denise xx

[colette]

Hi

Denise all gone quiet with the American gang as they are like us not sure where to go from hee..

Deaths..i think this is them as they are not on the 1901

Elizabeth Perks Liverpool aged 54 March Quarter 1896

John Perks Liverpool aged 60 June Quarter 1896..

If it is John died just after Elizabeth sad... still wonder what happened to their little girl Mary Catherine b 1887, cannot see a detah or marriage for her in Liverpool

1901 there is a John Perks boarder in Devonport St Toxteth aged 20 working in the Dyeworks..says born Liverpool

Might be him..as we know he lived as hes on the 1911 with your Richard.

Contacted a lady on Ancestry's trees as she has Bethuel etc in her tree.. still no reply as yet..

xx

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Many thanks, it does sound like John and Elisabeth Perks deaths,and as you say, the John mentioned is probably the one that was Richard's half brother, I will add to my records. I don't want to keep sending away for too many certificates as it gets quite expensive.
Re Birth Records - it's a pity you cant see who the parents were online, it would save quite a bit of money on certificates.
Denisexx

[colette]

Hi

I know its an expensive hobby John Perks & Elizabeth may have had a couple more kids.. with John Benjamin being born in 1880 and then Mary Catherine in 1887 maybe another one or two inbetween..who died.. as you say it would be wonderful to see mothers maiden names pre 1911.

I did hear a while back that they were going to start to add mothers maiden names at the GRO..from someone who worked there at the time .. but havent heard anything about it since..

This is a really frustrating case isnt it .. just wish we had more on John Henry Albert Tuttle..dont even know his birth year for sure..dont know where he died (thats if he died).
It just seems they had two kids 1864 & 1865 and no more..could he have died or ran off..

And where is Elizabeth in 1871

xx

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Just had a thought about Elisabeth A - perhaps she and husband John went back to Wales, seeing as that was where she was born in Denbeigh, maybe just for a visit and missed out on the census? What happens if you are on holiday when the census is taken? (overseas or elsewhere).
I wanted to ask you Colette, if I have a query about a "Barlow"relative - and seeing Richard Tuttle's wife Sarah was a Barlow, do I post a seperate query so as not to confuse the issue, or do I use this one?
Regards - Denise xx

[colette]

Hi
Just to update on the Tuttle saga..


Elizabeth's second marriage 1879 Hulme Lancashire says she was a widow..

John Perks says his father was Benjamin Perks a Blacksnith.

I have since found John Perks

marriage Mary Pecks to Benjamin Nott ..Ludow 1837..

1841 Bitterley Shropshire

Benjamin Nott b Shrops 1796 Blacksmith
Wife Mary b c 1816 Shops
Son John Perks b 1834 Shrops

1851 Round Gate Kingswinford Staffs

Mary Nott Married age 40 b Caynham or Clayhill Shrops..
Son John Nott age 17 b Ditto

1861 Dudley St Staffs

Benjamin Nott age 69 Blacksmith b Shrops
Wife Mary age 56 b Shrops

1861 Britania Inn Dudley St Staffs

Lodger John Nott age 27 b Shrops
Wife Louisa Nott age 28 b Kingswinford
Dau Martha age 7 b Kingsw...
Dau Mary Nott age 2 b Kingswi..

So John took the Nott name ..his mother may have had him out of wedlock ..

We think Louisa dies March Quarter 1871

1871 Hugh St Kingswinford

Head Mary Nott Widow age 64 b Shrops
Grand..Martha Nott age 17 b Kingswi..
Grandau.. Mary age 12 b Kingswin..

NO JOHN at this point we think he came to Lancashire and met Elizabeth A Tuttle..

Now Denises couisn has found a John H Tuttle on the 1870 census in USA.. John H Tuttle c1824 - Occupation - Overseer at Rubber Mill b Connecticut..

This is the occupation John Had..so its looking good..

We think he has just up and left Elizabeth and gone back to America..

How many years did you have to wait to remarry..if a spouse leaves..and doesn't come back ???????


regards xx

[Hilary]

It's usually reckoned as around 7 years.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[colette]

Thanks Hilary

John Henry Albert Tuttle & Elizabeth A Thomas only seem to have two children together 1864 & 1865 no others..but of course we can't say for sure as the Tuttle surname maybe spelt incorrect.

The surname Tittle bothers me as Elizabeth A born 1863 was wrongly spelt this way..and there were Tittle's in Liverpool so hard to say whos who..

Looked at the 1870 US census

John H Tuttle born c 1824 Connecticut Overseer at Rubber Mill
Sarah L Tuttle age 42 b Connecticut
Charles A Tuttle age 18 Rubber Worker at Mill b Connecticut..

One thing that worries me is it is the John we are looking for his family left Connecticut and move dto New York..their daughter Ida was born 1846 in New York all children before her in Connecticut..

So John would have gone to them not back to Connecticut..

xx

[colette]

Latest Tuttle installment..


Deaths..

John H Tuttle, born New Haven, Connecticut.
Date of Death - March 6, 1894 He was 69 and 5 months at the time of his death.
Cause of Death: La Grippe (What the hell is that???) and Inflammation of the Brain.
Father Unknown, but mother was Liza Atwater.

Sarah L Tuttle (just an initial - no middle name) died on April 8, 1890.
She was 61 and died from a hemorrage into Ovarian Cyst.
Parents Anson Kelsing(KELSEY) and Caroline from Connecticut.

So the plot thickens NO FATHER MENTIONED.. but a mother Elizabeth ATWATER.... which is something to go on i guess...

So naughty John Todd Tuttle the Physician could still be his father..

WE are working on gettig John Henry's marriage.. so fingers crossed..


xxx

[Barbara B]

La grippe is French for the flu - sounds much more dramatic doesn't it?
Barbara

[1denise]

Hi Barbara,
Many thanks for the explanation, I was wondering what "La Grippe"was - I even asked my doctor, and he said he had never heard of it.
Regards
1Denise