St Helens Royal Engineers- 55th West Lancs Division Update

[Mark Abbott]

Steve

I have checked the War Diary for mention of your grandfather and regret to report that I can't find a mention of him. This is NOT unusual; the vast majority of men who served with 419 Fd Coy aren't mentioned by name.

His medal index card shows that he is entitled to a 1914-15 Star trio, having landed in France on 8 August 1915. The unit originally landed in France in January 1915. I believe your grandfather was part of a draft of 45 reinforcements who joined the unit at Mailly Maillet on the 9th August 1915 at 3.00pm.

He was as you say discharged from the army in September 1917 under King's Regulation 392 (xvi) - no longer physically fit for war service. In addition to his medal, he received a Sliver War Badge.

http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/ancre.html

If I ever come across his name during my research, I will let you know.

Again, many thanks for contacting me.

Regards

Mark

[steves]

Hi Mark,

Many thanks for this information - it opens a new area for me to research.
I'm sure Joseph's daughter (my aunt) will be very interested in what you have told me.

With regards to his medals I have the 1914-15 star but not the other 2 which make uo the trio. I have spoken to my aunt who has no recollection of ever seeing the other 2 medals, or the silver war badge which I haven't heard of before.

Joseph died in 1938, I 'm not sure what the cause of death was but I have been told he died in a military hospital. i'm waiting for a copy of his death certificate from my cousin so will be able to provide more info then.

Steve

[Mark Abbott]

Hello Steve,

Glad to be of help.

His British War Medal and Victory Medal were returned to the issuing office under paragrah 992 King's Regulations 1923.

Medals were sent out to the last address the soldier gave to the army. If the soldier moved without telling the authorities, the medals would be undelivered (they had to be signed for) and returned.

The 1914-15 Star was issued before the other medals, so I assume he was still living at his original address. I would be very interested to know if my assumption is correct as a large number of medals issued to the St Helens engineers were returned under para 992.

Mark

[steves]

Hi Mark,

Have just received information from my cousin relating to Joseph.

He died on 25 june 1938, at the Ministry of Pensions hospital, park Lane, Liverpool.

Steve

[Mark Abbott]

Steve

Do you know where he is buried?

Mark

[steves]

Mark,
the family had a grave in Christ Church Eccleston, unfortunately the grave is unmarked but he is burried there with his wife and son who died as a young boy. I used to know where the grave was as a teenager I used to go and tend the grave i haven't been there for over 30 years now.

Steve

[Wiggly Amp]

For Eric Jones, Mary A and Daggers - your posts in October 2009.

I came upon your excellent site whilst conducting what's widely known as a "vanity search" ..... actually, I was searching for my official promotion date in the London Gazette - I'm a serving Royal Marine officer.

Eric, you appear to own a Webley service revolver that once belonged to my grandfather Thomas Cooper Simpson! That it is engraved is very interesting; about 10 years ago my father disposed of another Webley service revolver that belonged to my grandfather but we are fairly certain that it was not engraved with either his name or "W L D R E (T)". I would be very interested to know how you came by this one.

The Florence Olive that Daggers discovered in the Times was my Grandmother; the son born in 1934 was my Uncle - Michael Cooper-Simpson, now deceased. My Dad was born in 1939.

My Grandfather fought in Galipoli, where he was shot and injured. After he recovered, he then participated in the Salonica campaign, from where he was demobbed in 1919. Having served for 5 years in what one might euphamistically call a "promotion rich environment", he achieved the remarkable feat of remaining a Lieutenant. We have some papers referring to a charge of insubordination brought against my grandfather by a Major General in Salonica - the charges were dismissed but the episode perhaps reflects an attititude to higher authority in Lt Simpson that was not conducive to getting promoted!

While he was recovering from his wounds, Thomas wrote an account of his wartime experiences up to that point, which we still have in the family. As Daggers notes, he reengaged for WWII and was demobbed as a Major after service in the War Office. He retired to Malta in (I think) the '60s and died and was buried there in 1973.

The hyphen in "Cooper-Simpson" was only adopted by my Grandfather after WWII, and so by my father .. and me.

This is probably far more info than you care to have on any single individual on this site, but it may be of some interest. Thanks to Mary A and Daggers for what you have discovered - the medal card in particular was new to me.

WA

[daggers]

Wiggly [for short]
Welcome to the Forum - we seem to be the only two to be posting so far today - or rather you were late last night.
I'm very glad to have helped to put a few pieces of the puzzle together, and it is amazing what links can be forged by these e-brainstorms.

Did you find your date in the LG?
Typical bank holiday weather here - rain early morning, grey now and little chance of sun or warmth.
Daggers

[Mark Abbott]

Wiggley

Good to have you on board. Do you have any photos of your grandfather?

I am currently at Halton Camp, Lancaster on AT with CCF cadets! Not quite the same as the USA!

Mark

[Audry-anne]

Hello Mark
My grandfather - Francis Peter Taylor enlisted in St Helens on 18 July 1915 as a driver in the 1/3rd West Lancs Field company. No 430127.
He served at home from 18/07/15 to 10/02/17; in France from 11/02/15 to 9/11/18 when he returned to UK wounded. He was in hospital from 10/11/18 to 26/08/20 when he was discharged unfit for war service.
We have pension and service record, but no idea of where he was wounded.
Hope this is of interest to you and would be great to hear if you have any further details.
Cheers!

[Mark Abbott]

Audrey-Anne,

From the information you have given, I believe your grandfather would have served with 421 Field Company, which formed part of the 57th West Lancashire Division:

http://www.1914-1918.net/57div.htm

Are the pension and service record on Ancestry as I can't find them?

I don't have the War Diary (WD) for 421 Field Company as yet but when I do I will see if your grandfather is mentioned. Some WD are very detailed and give the names of the wounded but most only mention the officers by name.

Regards

Mark

[Hilary]

Sorry posted on the wrong question so I've now put it in the right place!

Hilary
Ed Officer

[Audry-anne]

Hello
I'm pretty new to all this - a friend obtained the records that we have - but I'm not sure where from - will find out and let you know.
My mum has his medals in their original envelope and boxes, it doesn't look as if they have ever been worn.
Mum also has a photo that I will scan in and post for you soon. There are six or so men in the photo, but we don't have details of who the others are.
His injuries were pretty significant, he had his right leg amputated at the thigh and a compound fracture of left tibia that continued to give him trouble through out his life. His artificial leg (and the spare that lived in the corner of his bedroom) were a constant source of fascination to me as a child.
There are other bits of info that may be of interest that I will post when I get the photo.
Cheers for now!

[Mark Abbott]

Audry-anne

Thank you for your interest.

I would be delighted to receive any further information.

Best wishes

Mark

[Audry-anne]

Hello Mark
Sorry for the long time in replying - have been busy at work. War record is from Ancestry, but you need to search under Peter Taylor. This is the name everyone knew him by.
He had been a driver for St Helens Co-op, which is why he became a driver in the RE.

[Audry-anne]

Hello
I have the photo now - can you tell me how to post it please?
Cheers!

[MaryA]

Directions to show a photograph in your message here http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9817

[Audry-anne]

My grandfather front row on left - you may be able to tell more by different cap badges etc

Hope ok!

[Audry-anne]

A lighter version - happy for you to remove either one if required.
Cheers!

[Mark Abbott]

Audrey

Superp photos. Thank you for posting. Do you know any of the other men ?

Mark