Lookup please - 1851 - Edward Gardner/Garner

[marbolyn]

I would be most grateful if someone could do a lookup of the 1851 census for Edward Gardner/Garner of full age, occ. Iron Moulder, who married Mary Tonkinson/Tomkinson 5th Sept 1851, my great aunt.

The address listed for Edward on the marriage cert looks like Back Bond St. Marriage took place at St Nicholas Church and one of the witnesses is listed as Elizabeth Garner (poss. Edward's sister). Father of Edward is listed as Robert Garner but I can't make out his profession....looks like ?????smith

I am trying to link to the correct family and I have found a Gardener family listed in the 1841 living in Cavendish Street but I can find no trace in the 1851 to this same family to see if Edward is still living with them, nor can I find Edward on the 1851 either. Any help would be much appreciated.
TIA, Marilyn

[MaryA]

Something strange about those details, I had no problem finding Edward with father Robert but ...

Back Bond Street, St Martin, Liverpool - All born Liverpool
Robert Gardner Head M 42 Engine Fitter
Henrietta Wife M 45
Robert Son U 23 Iron Moulder
Ann daur 15 Scholar
John son 12 "
Richard Son 9 "
Edward son 5 "
HO107; Piece: 2176; Folio: 722/1; Page: 54

Perhaps using this reference you could walk along Back Bond Street and see if you can see any mistranscribed family that might be yours?

[marbolyn]

Something strange about those details, I had no problem finding Edward with father Robert but ...

Have to agree with you Mary There is something amiss with this since the Edward in the 1851 is too young to have married my great aunt later that year After posting to the list I went to Ancestry and scrolled through the census page by page for Back Bond Street and the one you have quoted is the only Gardner family listed. Baffling! Looks like it is back to the drawing board.

Thanks, Marilyn

[dickiesam]

Hi,
I have just done a broad sweep of the 1861 census for Edward Gar*, born 1825 +/- 10, with a wife Mary. No hits at all. Assuming he is still alive, I doubt if he is in the county.

Do you have names and YoBs of any children and have you found the couple in any census? Is Mary Tomkinson's occupation and the name/occupation of her father shown on the marriage cert?

Regarding that profession of his father Robert.. can you scan the profession part and post it here via Photobucket? Or, send the scan to me via a PM? Whichever is easiest.

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

Good idea if you can show just the relevant part of the certificate, instructions to show a photograph in your post here

[MaryA]

I'm baffled since I don't see them in 1861 either, nor Edward and Mary. Also checked the 1841 census.

My thoughts are that Henrietta isn't Robert's first wife and possibly HE already had a son named Edward, perhaps just a little younger than the son Robert.

To prove anything we need to find them in other censuses.

[marbolyn]

Hi,
I have just done a broad sweep of the 1861 census for Edward Gar*, born 1825 +/- 10, with a wife Mary. No hits at all. Assuming he is still alive, I doubt if he is in the county.

Do you have names and YoBs of any children and have you found the couple in any census? Is Mary Tomkinson's occupation and the name/occupation of her father shown on the marriage cert?

Regarding that profession of his father Robert.. can you scan the profession part and post it here via Photobucket? Or, send the scan to me via a PM? Whichever is easiest.

Dickiesam

Hi...I have scanned the relevant portion of Edward Garner/Gardner's father's occupation. I know think that it may be Whitesmith (White metal worker) which I don't think would fit with the Engine Fitter for the Robert Gardner (42) listed in the 1851 Census living at Back Bond Street.
http://tinyurl.com/yegc45a Something really confusing about this!!!!

TIA, Marilyn

[marbolyn]

I'm baffled since I don't see them in 1861 either, nor Edward and Mary. Also checked the 1841 census.

My thoughts are that Henrietta isn't Robert's first wife and possibly HE already had a son named Edward, perhaps just a little younger than the son Robert.

To prove anything we need to find them in other censuses.

Thanks for all your help on this...it is a real puzzle. I had already thought about the two marriage scenario for Robert Gardner. Edward (if that is his given name) married Mary in 1851 but died around 1857 so you won't find them in 1861. Mary is then married to James Duff (47) born Scotland, so she comes up as Mary Duff with his children from his first marriage and Robert (aged 4) now known as Duff.

I have gone through the census pages for Back Bond St in 1851 and only found the one family named Gardner. Can find them in 1841 at same location but did find a Gardener family located at Cavendish Street, again father Robert is an Engineer, mother Ann, Edward 12, Cathrine 7, Elizabeth 10, Robert 5, Mary 1. Some info fits with 1851 other info doesn't Not sure if a father's occupation of Engineer/Engine Fitter could also be considered a Whitesmith on the marriage certificate...also 1851.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 557; Book: 3; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 24; Page: 41; Line: 6; GSU roll: 306939.

Regards,
Marilyn

[dickiesam]

Hello Marilyn,
That occupation is a 'whitesmith'. Come across it before. Bit like a blacksmith except he worked in tin and aluminium, in other words 'white' metal. It was whitesmiths who built aluminium car bodies by hand-beating the ally sheets into shape. Could have a link to 'engine fitter' (mechanic). On the domestic side they could make pots and pans by hand.

Dickiesam

[marbolyn]

Hello Marilyn,
That occupation is a 'whitesmith'. Come across it before. Bit like a blacksmith except he worked in tin and aluminium, in other words 'white' metal. It was whitesmiths who built aluminium car bodies by hand-beating the ally sheets into shape. Could have a link to 'engine fitter' (mechanic). On the domestic side they could make pots and pans by hand.

Dickiesam

Interesting....so I won't dismiss this family already found in 1851 just yet. Still searching for the elusive Edward Gar(d)ner of full age in Back Bond Street to match up with a record from 1841.
Thanks, Marilyn