Help finding a birth.

[scorpioleah]

Hello

I'm hoping someone can help. I'm new to the forum so first of all, hello everyone!

I have been doing my family research since about sept, so not that long. I'm 18 so only just getting into this

Anyways i have been doing rather well on my mothers mums side but i have been having problem on my mums dads side. I'm not sure where to start from so i will start with my grandad (who is deceased)

William Samuel Rees Born 1910 in Neath, Wales.
Father: David Rees Born Neath
Mother: Sarah Ellen Hughes (was married once before and was then sarah evans) according to all census records i have found for her she states she was born in liverpool.

David and sarah married in 1907 ( i have this certificate)
Sarah's father was william hughes, plasterer, alive in 1907

I found her on some census records with william and a mother ellen/ellin

1881:

1891:

1901:
William only, sarah with husband no1, and wife ellen deceased

in 1901 sarah was with husband john evans and daughter minnie

I can't seem to find her birth certificate, she was born c.1874-5 ish?

Her parents were Welsh and seemed to travel alot as they were both born in north wales, but also in the census they have been in south wales and for sarah to be born must have been in england. Any one would be much appreciated

Non working links removed MA

[simone]

Hi Scorpioleah, welcome to the forum

possibles?
Dec q 1875
Hughes Sarah Ellen W. Derby 8b 489

Dec q 1876
Hughes Sarah Ellen W. Derby 8b 320

Mar q 1877
Hughes Sarah Ellen W. Derby 8b 463

found those using FreeBmd, searching 1873 -1877

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Simone x

[scorpioleah]

thanks, i didnt think of doing w.derby
i just assumed she said "liverpool" so it has to be liverpool, silly me
will send off for those!

[dickiesam]

Hello Scorpioleah and welcome,
Did a quick check on FreeBMD for Liverpool births between 1873 and 1876. There is a choice of 2 Sarah Ellen Hughes to choose from:
Births Dec 1875 - Hughes, Sarah Ellen - W. Derby - 8b - 489.
Births Dec 1876 - Hughes, Sarah Ellen - W. Derby - 8b - 320.

I'd try the '76 birth first since she is shown as 6 years old in the 1881 census.
If you order the cert from the GRO use the Reference Points Checking facility and put her father's name in. If it turns out to be the wrong one the search will only cost you £4 instead of £7 for a wrong cert.
Good luck,
Dickiesam

[simone]

Hi again
Good advice from Dickiesam, don't just order them all, too costly just put ref checks on so they check the details for you first.. If you get stuck let us know, someone on here will help

Also when I searched FreeBmd I just searched on Lancashire, not the individual districts, that way I could just scroll through and see any born at Liverpool, West Derby, Toxteth Park etc

also good tips put together by Mary here-

http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=6937

Good Luck

Simone x

[scorpioleah]

Thanks, i will be keeping it in mind, little things like that make the big difference!

[Tina]

Hi Scorpio and welcome
Ellin is 45 & Wm 40 in 1881 with a 6yrs old daughter.
Perhaps we should look for them in 1871 to see if more kiddies are listed, born in Lpool also find their whereabouts do you think?
Cheers
Tina

[simone]

Tricky re the birth

according to Tom Nunamker site
http://www.toshop.com/censuscalc.cfm

If you were 6 on April 3, 1881 your birthday would be between
1874 Sat 04 Apr Earliest Possible birthday
1875 Sat 03 Apr Last Possible birthday


although we know that births not always accurate on census, the 1876 birth could possbly be too late

can't see anymore Sarah Ellens fitting those dates, although there are Sarah's

Jun q 1874
Hughes Sarah Liverpool 8b 86

sep q 1874
Hughes Sarah Liverpool 8b 190

as Tina said, could do with finding them in 1871 or earlier

Simone x

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

If you ordered your certificate from the Liverpool Register Office, giving the details of the father's name as you have it, they will probably check which one it is and issue the correct one, that way you would pay the flat £7 instead of losing your search fee by requesting the incorrect one.

PS if you want to give details of censuses you need to transcribe and maybe give the reference.

I have removed the references which won't link to the images unless logged into Ancestry.

[scorpioleah]

hi everyone

sorry mary didnt know that.

I have had a look for her parents in 1871 but with no luck so far, i think its mainly as i wouldnt know where they would be and if they were alone or not. i will have another search but would be gratefull if someone wouldnt mind having a quick search, fresh eyes and all....thank you


some info on the parents:

William Hughes
1901 census: 1845 Meirioneth, Bala. Living in Llanybyther, Carmarthenshire. Wife Ellen Deceased.
1891 census: born c 1844 Denbigh N, Wales. Living in swansea S, Wales
1881 census: born c 1841 Corwen, Merionethshire. Living in Bangor

Ellen
1891 census: born c 1835 Caernarvon, Wales. Living in swansea S, Wales
1881 census: born c 1836 Cvon, Caernarvonshire. Living in Bangor

Sarah Ellen Hughes with parents in both 1891 and 1881 and with husband john in 1901 and husband david in 1911. In all these census she states she was born in liverpool c. 1874-5

As you can see the info william and ellen gave never really stayed the same

[simone]

Hi

Do you have the marriage certificates for her marriages to both John Evans and David Rees?

Could you give us any info on them.. i.e
residence, and especially who the witnesses were?

Thanks

Simone x

[simone]

With the tooing and froing for William#s birtplace and where he was living etc, I am wondering about this chap in 1871 living at Corwen


RG10; Piece: 5684; Folio: 55; Page: 13
Name Age
Thomas Hughes 84 Road Labourer, b Denbigh
Elizabeth Hughes 78 b Corwen
Thomas Hughes 14 Errand Bpy, b Corwen, Merionethshire
William Hughes 29 Slater & Plasterer, boarder, b Llanywern, Denbighshire

As Ellen is about 7-9 years older than William, could it be a 2nd marriage for her to William.. maybe Sarah was not born a Hughes at all and William Hughes is Step dad really



(just in case you don't have this
John Evans m Sarah Ellen Hughes, Swansea, Mar q 1898, vol 11a page 1094)
Simone x

[scorpioleah]

Hi

Do you have the marriage certificates for her marriages to both John Evans and David Rees?

Could you give us any info on them.. i.e
residence, and especially who the witnesses were?

Thanks

Simone x

Only to David
Witness was a minnie evans, so that is her daughter with john evans

And thanks simone, i did see that one, which is her marriage to john, i think i might get that one to see if there are any hughes witnesses

I'm wanting sarah's birth so i can confirm her mother's last name and get william and ellen's marriage. I had a look for a marriage between the two but without knowing her maiden name not much luck in finding the one.

[simone]

="scorpioleah

Only to David
Witness was a minnie evans, so that is her daughter with john evans

And thanks simone, i did see that one, which is her marriage to john, i think i might get that one to see if there are any hughes witnesses

Hi scorpioleah

not sure about that Minnie would have only been about 8 or 9 wouldn't she. I thought witnesses at that time had to be over 21 Maybe someone on here can let us know Perhaps she is a relative of John's, there are possibles living in Swansea

good idea about the marriiage, as you say may give more clues..

let us know what you find

Simone x

[scorpioleah]

maybe little minnie was named after someone then. Just ordered the cert so will let you know when i find out

thanks for all your help everyone

[scorpioleah]

Hell Scorpioleah and welcome,
Did a quick check on FreeBMD for Liverpool births between 1873 and 1876. There is a choice of 2 Sarah Ellen Hughes to choose from:

Births Dec 1875 - Hughes, Sarah Ellen - W. Derby - 8b - 489.
Births Dec 1876 - Hughes, Sarah Ellen - W. Derby - 8b - 320.

Dickiesam

Tried both of these with the checking ref, and both have been refunded, not the ones

[dickiesam]

Hi, sorry those GRO references didn't pan out. Had hoped one of them would be good.

From Simone: As Ellen is about 7-9 years older than William, could it be a 2nd marriage for her to William.. maybe Sarah was not born a Hughes at all and William Hughes is Step dad really

I am thinking now that perhaps Simone's 'maybe' is correct and Hughes was not her born surname. More digging needed!
Dickiesam

[scorpioleah]

if thats the case im going to need to find sarah's mum on the census before 1881

had a quick look but no luck, with no surname its going to be hard. had a look for the marriage between ellen and william hughes, but without knowing the year and the location that one is hard to pindown

[simone]

Hi

Who was the other witness at her marriage to David, apart from Minnie.. Also what is down as their residences on marriage cert?

Simone x

[scorpioleah]

sorry i got it wrong it was minnie davies not evans, should have checked that

and a w.h. jones or it may be w.f.jones.

Sarah was living at 6 ethel street neath and david at 11 ethel street