LRO Look-up Request Please? COMPLETED

[philrob]

Dear Readers,

In a family grave in Ford Cemetery I have two people who were buried on the same day - July 26 1957
Thomas & Catherine German of 6A Prince William St, Liverpool 8
Thomas was aged 37 years and Catherine 36.

I was wondering if some kind person would have a look at the Echo archives or similar to see if this was anything to do with an accident or perhaps even something more sinister?

Any help with this mystery would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

[Tina]

Hiya Phil
There was a dreadful flu epidemic in Lpool in 1957.
I've only just remembered about it today after reading your post.
My Ma was at death's door, I was 12 & had to look after little sister.
Dad did all the caring. No room in Sefton Gen, it was packed out.
Perhaps some of our crew will remember an event for the same year?
I hope you get a result from LRO look up.
All the best
Tina

[dickiesam]

Hi folks,
There had been a quite severe outbreak of flu in 1951 and there were, as now, the usual seasonal outbreaks of a relatively minor severity.

But, 1957 was the year of the Asian Flu, regarded then as a pandemic. It was particularly horrendous in Liverpool, which was believed to be the centre of the outbreak. I remember it well because my job back then took me into people's homes and we were issued with face masks by my company.

See Paragraph 7 here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ ... c-1957.htm

Regarding Philrob's Thomas & Catherine German, a death cert would confirm the cause. But, a probable husband and wife dying almost at the same time...? I'd say Tina is spot on.

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

A good summary and a good site, but watch the pop ups!

If you don't mind Dickiesam, I'll place a link on the websites board.

It looks like Philrob now has his answer except for confirmation from death certificates, so I'll take out the look up request I placed and start a new post with it.

[dickiesam]

Hello MaryA and complements of the Season.
Don't mind in the slightest re placing a link on the websites board. My pleasure in fact.

Philrob may know, but it has occured to me that the unfortunate couple who died in 1957 may have been brother and sister. I did a quick flit though marriages up to 1945 and didn't find a match.
Cheers,
Dickiesam

PS: And if Elsa Mary is watching... its raining yet again! So may flit some more....

[MaryA]

Did a little "flit" myself and found
Thomas German married Catherine Crowley Q2 1947 Liverpool 10d 808.

No children though, unless Crowley wasn't Catherine's maiden name.

[dickiesam]

You beat me to it MaryA. Had only found 4 Thomas German marriages between 1938 and 1945 and none in Lancs, let alone Liverpool. Just swept thru' to 1950 and found one in 1947. About to post when the notification of your find came in.

If this is the couple, they died ten years later.. How sad.

Dickiesam

[irenew]

Hi philrob I have the info you need if you pm me your e mail address i will send it to you. also if it is okay with you could you let the forum know the details Irene

[MaryA]

Brilliant Irene, what a great job you've done today, thank you.

[Tina]

Thank you Irene for helping philrob You're a cracker!!
He hasn't sent for death cert by the way as he's only recently stumbled on this couple & their burial on the same day in Ford.

Tina

[philrob]

A huge thank you to Irene for finding this amazing though very sad story.
I have included a transcription of the report from the Echo below.

Taken from LIVERPOOL ECHO July 22 1957

City Man and Wife Dead in Flat
Police Force Way in
Investigation

A Liverpool man and hs wife, Mr and Mrs Tommy Germain were found dead in their Corporation flat this morning after police had forced entry.
Described by their neighbours as a quiet couple Mr and Mrs Germain had lived at the flat at 6A Prince William Street on the first floor for about sixteen months.
Mr Germain, a labourer was aged about 32. He and his wife, Kitty had not been seen by neighbours since late on Saturday night.

Detectives under Chief Inspector J M French were making enquiries into the couple’s death.

Mrs Frederick Reeves, a neighbour who lives at 6A told the Echo that she has seen the couple late on Saturday night when they came back from having a drink.
“All day long yesterday I was worried because I could not hear a sound from the flat” she sid. “I was sick worrying about them. This morning I knocked on the door but could not get any answer?

Mrs Reeves went downstairs to Mrs Mary Nicholas at No 8 and together they went upstairs and knocked on the Germain’s door. Still there was no reply. “Through the letter box I could see their working clothes hanging up, but there was no sign of movement” said Mrs Nicholas. The police were called by neighbours.

TAPS TURNED ON

Constable John Lewis who got a ladder and gained entry to the flat through a window found the couple dead on the floor of the kitchen, near the gas stove. The taps were turned on.

Mrs Joan Burton (?) of 18A Prince William Street had phoned for the police. Her father, Mr Jake Reeves of 8A(?) said that when he came home shortly after 11 o’clock on Saturday night he had seen the living room light on in the Germain’s flat.

Shortly afterwards Mrs Mary Doran of No 4, said she saw Thomas Germain leave his flat and walk alone towards Mrs Burton’s house. He stopped outside and returned home without going on (?) No one had seen the Germain’s on Sunday.
The couple had been dead for some time, said a police spokesman.
A post mortem is being carried out.
_____________________________________________________________

Does any reader know whether post mortem reports are available for public viewing?

Thank you to all of you - as usual you come up with extraordinary suggestions to help us. I very appreciate your kindness.

[Tina]

Hi Phil
Thanks for sharing such a sad ending for the Germans and to Irene for researching, giving her time once again.
I hope you get results about the p.m otherwise it's just speculation about what could have happened.
All the best with this Phil.

Tina

[Hilary]

Such a sad story.

There would have been an inquest following the pm. The findings of the inquest may have been reported in the paper. I doubt that you can see a post mortem report (there was a pm following my father's sudden death - we never saw the report just the death certificate giving the cause found at the pm). I also think I've read somewhere that Coroner's reports are closed for a number of years - can't remember how long though 50 years, 75 years can't remember?

I would get a death certificate. This will give the cause of death as found by the inquest. It will show whether it was an accident, suicide or anything more sinister.

Ed Officer

[MaryA]

What a sad story, thanks Irene for going to the trouble of finding the details and for Philrob for sharing.

Dickiesam gave a link to H M Coroner which gives an email address, you could write and ask them.

[philrob]

I have sent an e-mail to the coroner in Liverpool - name and contact details provided by DickieSam - Thanks!

If I cannot get any satisfaction through this approach I will send for the death certificates and have a look that way. I will keep the forum informed re what happens.

Thanks again to you all and may your 2010 be the best year yet for you!

[Tina]

Hi Phil
I hope you can get p.m results.
Death cert may say "died by his own hand"??
I'm not sure.
Good luck.

Tina

[MaryA]

Philrob's follow up on th is post is here http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=9211