Cold Case - Next thing to get your teeth into?

[MaryA]

Oh no! maybe another one to Margaret the sister of John (1851 census)?? There wasn't a John before in the family.

There's something in the water over there!

Why couldn't the vicar have been a bit more articulate about this one as he was with others?

[simone]

Are we sure they are brother and sister she has called this one John could she be sister in law he does seem to be the only man to hand

Simone x

[MaryA]

The John Kent born 1853 would appear to be the John Bickerstaff,
1861 8 Court Norman Street, Islington, Liverpool
Henry Bickerstaff Head M 39 Labourer Liverpool
Margaret Wife M 45 Cheshire Neston
John Son 7 Cheshire Neston
Henry son 5 Liverpool
James son 2 "
Robert Evans Lodger Un 23 Slater & Plasterer Liverpool
RG9; Piece: 2691; Folio: 121; Page: 23

Go to the 1881 census and he's with them in Back Bond Street, Liverpool
Henry Bickerstaff Head M 59 General Labourer Liverpool
Margaret Wife M 61 Neston, Cheshire
Henry Son Unm 26 General Labourer Liverpool
John Kent Stepson Mar 28 General Labourer Hinderton, Cheshire
Susanah daur in law 27 Liverpool
Margaret daur 5 "
John H son 3 "
RG11; Piece: 3596; Folio: 104; Page: 48

They married in Liverpool St Simon in 1861.

[simone]

Margaret 1817
kids
John Kent 1854
Marries Henry Bickerstaff
Kids
Henry 1856
James 1859

xx

just noticed in Col's meassge... must be him

[MaryA]

Am building up quite a list of baptisms and marriages I need to look up - I feel urgent need of another Record Office visit but don't think I have any holidays available - grrrrrrrrrrr

[simone]

tell you what Mary, if we haven't done your tree by the time we're finished, we'll have definitely done someone's

[MaryA]

Then I certainly hope they become a member of our Society and make use of it all!!

[colette]

Haaaaaaaaaaaa


Oh god we are going round in circles Margaret only had one Illegitimate child thats John named after her brother..then she had two with Henry Bickerstaff..if Margaret Ann was Margaret's she would be with her back in Neston in 1851..

The only way Margaret Ann could be the Thomas Kent who died in 1843 child..is if she was born before she says she was so a wee bit earlier than c 1846..some how i dont think that Thomas Kent was connected to the Neston Kents.. i think he was from elsewhere in Cheshire.

If she realy is connected to these Kents its only through Maria.. Elizabeth...Ann or Alice..there is no marriages for these girls in Neston..so they have moved out of Neston..but proberbly not too far..maybe Margaret Ann spends alot of time there as a child.. so thinks she was born there.. OR could have been born there and baptsed in a near by parish wherever one of these girls moved to..

I am thinking since her first job was in Liverpool the Vauxhall area.. maybe one of these women moved to that area..also if she was called Kent her mother had to marry after she was born so thats a time scale we have c 1846 onwards..


As i say we know she wasnt baptised there, but still could have been born there..with her saying Hinderton and this being where these Kents lived its too much of a coinsidense isnt it....


xx

[MaryA]

Like you I've always suspected that somehow she must be connected with those from Neston, again like you I just have never figured out how.

Sorry girls I'm not a great deal of help to you since I've been over all this lot over the years, but haven't found anything different to what you all have.

[simone]

Hi

Wondering about these 2 marriages, but having trouble tracking them on census

Both at St Peter's Liverpool

Samuel Jones to Elizabeth Kent 14/4/1834
James McMullen to Alice Kent 14/3/1836

both marriages are on Lancs OPC and do say spinster of this parish for each. However, the latter one for Alice has Elizabeth Kent as witness so obviously not going to be the Elizabeth married in 1834 but could it be our Alice and her sister Elizabeth

increasing list Mary

Simone x

[colette]

Hi

Looks like Elizabeth Kent married William Dickinson in West Derby 1842..

1851 they are (Behind The Church Great Crosby,,) honestly thats the address

William Dickinson b 1801 Formby Ag Lab
Elizabeth b 1801 Neston Cheshire
James b 1836 Grt Crosby
Ruth b 1844 Grt Crosby
William b 1850 Grt Crosby



1841 William is alone with kids his wife was called Ellen she must have died..

Mary aged 20
Jane age 14
Thomas aged 9
James age 5

we can rule her out... i saw the Alice Kent marriage but i can't find her after marriage.. it might just be her sister Elizabeth was still Kent in 1836..

added later think Alice might be one of these..Deaths


June 1845

McMULLEN Alice Liverpool 20 376

Deaths Sep 1849

McMullen Alice Liverpool 20 662

still she was married too soon to be Margaret's mum....

xx

[MaryA]

I've also looked at the Maria Kent who married Robert Hilton in 1849 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage.

1851 Clifton Crescent, Birkenhead
HO107; Piece: 2175; Folio: 255; Page: 13
Robert Hilton Head M 24 Butcher Lancs Liverpool
Maria Wife M 25 Durham Sunderland
Wm Henry son 1 Cheshire Birkenhead
with a nurse and servant

by 1861 they are in St Catherine St, Bebington and Maria has remarried
Thomas Harris Head M 33 Cl Merchant Liverpool Pembrokeshire H'West
Maria Sunderland Durham
William Hilton son in law Scholar Birkenhead
Robert " 8 " " "
Catherine " 9 daur in law " "
Sidney H Harris 2 " "
RG9; Piece: 2646; Folio: 12; Page: 18

Think we can rule her out?

[simone]

Hi Mary

Have you looked into John and Bestey Beddoes at all. I know you siad that they witnessed a number of marriages so may be something to do with the church, but they also appear to have lived in Bromborough in 1871

RG10; Piece: 3741; Folio: 10; Page: 14
John Beddows 45 b Montgomeryshire, Wales
Betay Beddows 44 b Criggon, Montgomeryshire

Betsey Beddoes dies in 1877, age 59, at Warrington.

John has remarried at St Oswald Winwick in 1879 to Elizabeth Burgess nee Varley.

Coincidental that this couple lived on the Wirral, move to Warrington, and then Margaret Ann marries at the church they use

What do you think

Simone x

[simone]

1861 census, in Wales
age is out, and Bestsey born in Shropshire now

RG9; Piece: 4261; Folio: 56; Page: 15
John Beddoes 44 Farmer
Betsey Beddoes 44
Sarah Beddoes 22
Betsey Beddoes 16


1851 in Wales
HO107; Piece: 2499; Folio: ; Page: 1
John Beddoes 34 Farmer
Betsey Beddoes 34 born in Criggian Montgomershire
Sarah Beddoes 12
Betsey Beddoes 6
Elizabeth Hughes 17
Edward Bowen 22


wonder what Bestsey's maiden name was?

[simone]

I see there is a marriage in Malpas, Cheshire
23 Feb 1826.
John Beddow to Elizabeth Hughes 23/2/1826
may be them can't be sure, although an Elizabeth Hughes, servant is with them in 1851, could he be related

[colette]

Hi girls

Every way we turn with this we hit brick walls..

Lets think why would she call herself KENT..she wouldn't just pluck a surname out of a hat.

Still wondering about Hannah she has the same birth year, and she dissapears, after 1851..i would feel happier if we can trace her..just to rule her out..

Margaret Ann is so adamant shes from Hinderton... if she had just said Cheshire.. we could think differently..

xx

[simone]

Oh my, there's an Evans with them

1841 census
HO107; Piece 1434; Book: 4 Folio: 3; Page: 2
at Haughton, Montgomeryshire
John Beddoes 25
Elizabeth Beddoes 24
Sarah Beddoes 2
Elizabeth Evens 15 F.S. not born in county



Simone x

[MaryA]

Well talk about leaving no stone unturned! They are one couple I hadn't looked at, thanks Simone.

..... and now an Evans, curiouser and curiouser!

[simone]

Hmm In 1881 John is down as the Parish Cllerk and Sexton at Winwick.

RG11; Piece: 3789; Folio: 8; Page: 10

Elizabeth Evans with them in 1841, not born in county, but no idea which county and such a common name

why did Margaret go there to marry was she going to them
prob nothing to do with her parentage though

Simone x

[MaryA]

My assumption has always been that she went there to work, however, it was quite a bit out of the way, a completely different area from Vauxhall and Wavertree where she had been previously.