Cold Case - Next thing to get your teeth into?

[MaryA]

Two questions I've often asked myself but have no answer - sorry!

In the 1871 census his aunt Elizabeth seemed to take in everybody, her Uncle Richard, sister Hannah Ayre and her children and appeared to be a working woman herself, in a shop, but once she married perhaps she had enough on her plate with step children as well as her own.

I wonder if somebody had referred Margaret Ann to the Rogerson family to work, presumably she had no money to hand and had to work.

It might be just coincidence but in 1886 when she placed William in the Bluecoat School, this was the same year as her husband's estate was finally sorted out, after 8 years, and she came into £137.15.2.

PS she did give her address as Winwick on the marriage certificate.

[colette]

I think Mary that Thomas Lunt's parents did not agree with the marriage maybe they wanted better for their son...

None of his family or her family were witneses at the marriage.. and it was out of town.. why WINWICK of all places..whats the connection there..and also as you say 8 years to sort out Thomas her hubbys estate..theres a battle going on there by the sounds of it, plus little Willie never went to live with any of them.. so deffo something odd there..

Maybe they found out she was illegitimate.. and were not too happy.

xx

[MaryA]

Have you popped my bubble? I'd been thinking a bit of romance really, they were both 30 when they married, can't figure out how they met, and the poor couple were together such a short time, he died of smallpox.

There must have been creditors which took so long to sort matters out, but without a Will it's difficult to find out information.

Poor Willie, didn't spend much time with parents did he? no wonder his family said he was a grumpy old man, although I only ever remember seeing him once, I was 5 when he died, and he gave me a bag of mint imperials when he visited - the things that stick in our minds hey!

[simone]

I find it freaky that she married at Winwick, and then her son is living with the Warringtons

[colette]

Hi Mary

Whos this Elizabeth Wood Margaret ends up living her last years with ?? could she be connected and i wonder why Oxton.. did William live in Oxton ? if not wouldnt she want to be near her son and Grandchildren..

I still think she was born in Neston but just with a different surname shes so persistant to her birth place.

and bloomin WINWICK is bugging the life out of me haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

xx

[MaryA]

Whos this Elizabeth Wood Margaret ends up living her last years with ?? could she be connected and i wonder why Oxton.. did William live in Oxton ? if not wouldnt she want to be near her son and Grandchildren..

It would seem not

William lived in Anfield and Everton, Breckfield Road North and later Boaler Street, this address given on son's birth certificates and 1911 census and indeed on Margaret's death certificate so it would seem he lived there quite a few years.

As she died at a different address in 1915 to the one she was living in 1911, I had assumed that she was lodging, no relationship was given on the census.

You know how the servants had their day off, I bet she used to take the ferry across to the Wirral, maybe made her feel nearer to her birthplace to retire there.

Over the weekend I'll post a photograph that must be her - on the back was written "Mrs Lunt 1910". She looks very austere in it. In 1910 there were only two Mrs Lunt's in the family, Margaret Ann and her daughter in law, Willie's wife. I thought maybe the only person in the family who could have written this on the back was the daughter in law, so it would seem that she wasn't over-friendly towards the family.

I still think she was born in Neston but just with a different surname shes so persistant to her birth place.

and bloomin WINWICK is bugging the life out of me

Haha! why do you think I'm asking for help, mysteries I've never been able to solve alone

[colette]

Hiya.. oh i think i am coming down with sommit i have those achey feelings in me legssssssssssss and feel like they dont want to work..


Mrs Lunt aye .. no first name..would love to see the photo.. arrrrrrr kind of feel sorry for her one child and shes not even living near him in her later years..

Hope you dont mind i have contacted a guy on Genes who has the Rogersons in his tree... seen as though they were sort of influentual people and Margaret worked for them for years i thought maybe they had photos or any old paper work..that may help the case..

Anyway shes calling herself KENT for a reason isnt she so KENT comes in to it somehwere along the line.
Even if she had no dad why pick Thomas as his name..we have gone through all the Thomas Kents and nothing doing.

the 1851 is the key here how frustrating.


Last thing were is she buried ???

xx

xx

[Sonja.B]

KENT - now Im might be jumping in here....but I have KENTS in my tree and they lived in Earlstown from around 1882.

Sonja

[colette]

Hi Mary

Going back to that Kent family in Neston 1851..

John & Sis Margaret..what happened to Margaret.. i cant see a marriage for her or a death..

Also John had 3 kids to Hannah ..Hannah dies..where are his 3 kids in 1861.. hes remarried a Mary Hughes..

Its little Hannah born 1845 i am wondering about.. what if Margaret brought her up and Margaret has remarried.. and little Hannah calls herself Margaret Ann..her dad is pre occuppied with his new wife Mary Hughes the widow..

Need to find that Margaret......in 1861

xx

[simone]

Ok, don't know if this is something sorry to get hopes up if not

I decided to look for Kent marriages on Lancs Bmd in case young Hannah had married. However, found another Hannah Kent marriage in 1847 which actually shows as a remarriage. This Hannah Kent has married a James Parry at St Nicks her maiden name was Ogden.

She has children on the 1851 census who must have been born Kents, one is a Mary Ann born c 1846, Rock Ferry, Cheshire. Had a look in case it said Marg Ann, but it does look like Mary Ann

There is a Mary Ann Parry on the 1861 census but she is born some 30 mile away from Rock Ferry in Bursland and is living in Rushton, Cheshire even further away

1851 census
HO107; Piece: 2187; Folio: 171; Page: 18
Grafton Street, Toxteth Park
James Parry 39 b Frodsham Cheshire, Master Mariner
Hannah Parry 39 maryport, Cumberland
James Parry 12 b Liverpool
John Parry 10 b Rock Ferry
Elizabeth Parry 7 b Rock Ferry
Mary Ann Parry 5 b Rock Ferry, Cheshire
Charles Parry 2 b Liverpool
Britania Parry 8 Mo b Liverpool
Sarah Fletcher 14 servant


can't find the family/children after this, but then I have been going round in circles

Perry Kent m Hannah Ogden, St Michael's Liverpool 3/12/1835

fresh eyes

prob wrong with name Mary Ann unless enumerator got it wrong and Perry isn't Thomas is it although I can't see anything, deaths etc for a Perry Kent

Simone x

[simone]

Perry Kent was a Mariner according to Lancs OPC Back to the drawing board

[MaryA]

Thank you both, your heads are going round in circles as have mine over a number of years, yes fresh eyes I was hoping would dig up some new points and you certainly have Simone. Even if you have now thought it wrong, I'm going to keep your family on file in case I ever need to look at them again.

Sonja, my Kent(s) - not sure if we have more than one of them was from Neston Cheshire, so as yet no connection with Earlstown but if we come across one I'll shout.

Colette, very interesting to find a member of the Rogersons, I'll be interested to hear what they say, thanks.

Have only just recently got the death cert. so haven't yet researched where she is buried. I did ask where the nearest would be and I think I was told Rake Lane or Flaybrick might be the ones, but I don't know the Wirral very well. I think it will be a summer visit "cross the water" and have a mooch about.

[MaryA]

Does she look a severe woman or what?



Her son "Little Willie" they have the same foreheads don't you think?

[simone]

Yes Mary deffo same foreheads

There is another marriage on Cheshire Bmd Thomas Kent to Anne Mills in 1839. It did occur to me that Anne may have remarried if Thomas died and perhaps it wasn't showing as a remarriage on the Bmd site I've had a couple of those before

There is then a marriage in 1856 Patrick Lewis to Anne Kent, so I wondered if it could her On 1861 she is with Patrick Lewis now in Liverpool and has a step daughter listed Annie Kent age 10,
RG9; Piece: 2681; Folio: 59; Page: 46

no sign og you Margaret Anne though but maybe keep in mind

you'll have list as long as your arm Mary

Simone x

[MaryA]

There is another marriage on Cheshire Bmd Thomas Kent to Anne Mills in 1839. It did occur to me that Anne may have remarried if Thomas died and perhaps it wasn't showing as a remarriage on the Bmd site I've had a couple of those before

Yes me too, usually I think because they don't say that they are widowed and the name goes down as if they are single - gets complicated don't it?

Well what if it were this couple ? Chester isn't that far away. But not finding them after 1841 .... heck, why do they all go into hiding?

[simone]

Hi Mary

Can't be them

Ann is here with Thomas in 1841
Chester
HO107; Piece 130; Book: 10; Enumeration District: 11; Folio: 16; Page: 26;.
Thomas Kent 23
Ann Kent 30
Elizabeth Kent 7
Emily Kent 5

1851
HO107; Piece: 2172; Folio: 164
Sutton, Cheshire
John Dutton 71
Ann Kent 43 widow
Elizabeth Mills 16
Emily Mills 14
Ann Dutton 19

no sign of a Margaret Ann

[MaryA]

Children named Mills - well they have their own story then don't they?

Not delving into that one, I have enough complications with my own silly Kent!!

Thanks again Simone.

Mary

[colette]

Hi Mary

I have found the Margaret Kent who was in Neston with brother John in 1851

Marriage Margaret Kent to Henry Bickerstaff Dec 1861 St Simons Liverpool..FATHER Thomas Kent per IGI...

1861 Census 8 Court Norman St Lime St Ward

Head Henry Bickerstaff age 39 b Lpool Labourer
Wife Margaret age 45 b Neston Cheshire
Son John age 7 b Neston Cheshire
Son Henry age 5 b Lpool
Son James age 2 b Lpool

1871 17 Norman St Lime St Ward

Head Henry Bickerstaff age 49 Porter b Lpool
Wife Margaret age 51 b Neston
Son John age 18 b Neston
Son Henry aged 16 b Lpool

1881 5 Back Bond St

Head Henry Bickerstaff age 59 Gen Lab b Lpool
Wife Margaret age 61 b Neston
Son Henry age 26 b Lpool

Step Son John Kent age 26 Married b Hinderton Cheshire
Wife Susannah ?? age 29 b Lpool
Dau Margaret age 5 b Lpool
Son John H age 3 b Lpool

1891 Son Henry is aged 35 lodging in Madelane St Tox Teacher Of Writting & Bookeeping single.

Can't see Johh Kent and his family

Henry Bickerstaff's frst wife was Mary J they were in Holden St in 1851, her widowed mum Mary J McCamley was with them..

still want to find Margaret in 1841 as we have that time lapse of 10 years were she could have been in Liverpool and moved back to Neston as we know by 1851..its possible she could have had a daughter isnt it ??

I not Margaret one of her other sisters could be the mother...

so that leaves

Elizabeth born Neston 1805

Ann born Neston 1809

Alice b Neston 1814

Maria b Neston 1799 (what happened to her)
she had William 1825 & Ann 1828 dies 8 months old..and whos the other little Maria in 1851..

also whilst browsing Neston i saw in 1841 James Kent and wife Hannah James b 1808 Hannah born 1804..in Great Neston...

Now the Hannah that died 13 April 1845 tallys up to this Hannah..its obvious she died in Childbirth as little Hannah has the same birth date 13 April 1845..

What i am wondering is was Hannah first married to James Kent then he dies and she shacks up with his brother John as all 3 kids have John as a father on CPR'S.and i cant see a marriage to John nor James for that matter..can anyone else see their marriages.

It wouldnt surprise me going by Margaret their sisters record and Maria their other sister.

Lots to ponder over

xx

[MaryA]

Pondering till my head is hurting Col, how on earth you manage to keep things straight I don't know!

1841 Margaret Kent age 20 Not born in County, in Heath Street, Toxteth Park with the Robinsons
HO107; Piece 568; Book: 14; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 58; Folio: 44; Page: 14

[simone]

Now the Hannah that died 13 April 1845 tallys up to this Hannah..its obvious she died in Childbirth as little Hannah has the same birth date 13 April 1845..

xx

Hi Col

Sorry, confused According to CPR site, Hannah baptised 13/4/1845 is daughter of John and Jane living at Birkenhead.

Marriage John Kent to Jane Webster, Birkenhead St Mary 1840

so is Jane also a Hannah

Simone x