Haswell help needed

[colette]

Hi

Found one Joseph Handley West Derby Jan-March 1860 8b 407

Had a look and cant see one on the 1861..

Think we can forget that one looks like he died Jan-March 1861


xx

[Carol1953]

Hi
Certificate arrived today
14th July 1864 24 Lissant St Harriet Haswell female 6months Daughter of Samuel Haswell ropemaker Bronchitis The mark of Mary Ann Cooper present at death 24 Lissant St.
So how does Mary Ann fit in with the family and why didn't Samuel record the death?
Carol

[colette]

Oh Carol i am so happy i know who Mary Ann is..


gonna go back to the 1841 bare with me ok..

1841 Pleasant St Lpool

Head John Higginson age 26
Wife Harriet 25
Son William 5
DAUGHTER MARY ANN AGE 4

1851 12 Luke St Lpool
Head John Higginson age 38 Porter b Chester
Wife Harriet age 36 b Chester
Son William age 15 b Lpool
DAUGHTER MARY ANN AGE 14 B LPOOL
Son John Charles age 9 b Lpool
Son Joseph John age 7 b Lpool
Dau Harriet age 4 b Lpool]Son Richard Francis age 6 months b Lpool
Brother In Law William Haswell age 33 Porter b Chester
Niece Harriet age 6 b Lpool

1861 22 Lissant St

John Higginson age 47 Cotton Porter b Chester
Harriet age 46 b Chester
MARY ANN AGE 23 B LPOOL
Jos John age 16 b Lpool
Harriet age 13 b Lpool
Maria age 8 b Lpool
William H age 4 b Lpool first William must have died ...
BOARDER JOHN COOPER AGE 22 B STAFFORDSHIRE COTTON PORTER..


Marriage HIGGINSON Mary Ann ---- COOPER John Toxteth Park, St. Clement 1861

So i was right Samuel was connected to these Haswell's we have to work out how now..

I love it when something comes together..Lissant St was the key and little Harriet i was praying Samuel would be her father.. i am made up


we now have to go through all the family members to work out who was his mother..theres no Roberts in this family as far as i can see...

The Sarah i found had different parents so forget her...

lets see what we can dig up..


xxx

[simone]

Peggy?

SHARP, Robert Marriage
Wife: Margaret HASWELL
Marriage Date: 18 Jul 1852 Recorded in: Edge Hill, Lancashire, England
Collection: St Mary
Husband previously married
Husband's Father: Jonathan SHARP
Wife's Father: Charles HASWELL

Simone x

[simone]

Could Robert Sharp be the ropemaker

If Peggy had him aged about 14/15, and didn't marry till later... could his dad be named as Robert on marriage with the incorrect assumption by priest that he was Robert Haswell.

Haven't found him on census yet

Simone x

[simone]

Hi

Haven't found Robert and Margaret together as yet after 1852 marriage.

However, found this possible for Robert in 1841 with first wife looks like he is a Ropemaker 'Rope m'

HO107; Piece 559; Book: 19; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 26; Folio: 15; Page: 24;
Name Age
Robert Sharp 30
Mary Sharp 30
Francess Sharp 6
William Sharp 3

Simone x

[simone]

Think this is that Robert Sharp b 1811, in 1851 he is a widow now, although now showing as a Porter
HO107; Piece: 2177; Folio: 144; Page: 36
ar Doncaster Street
Name Age
Thos Harrison 44
Sarah Harrison 40
Ellen Harrison 18
Esther Harrison 11
Willm Harrison 9
Thos Harrison 7
Margt Harrison 2
Robb Tharp 44 b Cumberland
Fanny Tharp 16
Wm Tharp 13

Simone x

[Hilary]

I wonder what occupation this Robert has?

Robert Haswell baptised 5 September 1835 son of Robert and Jane Haswell at Birkenhead.

It's from the IGI and from a register not an inpoutted one. I imagine it would be Birkenhead priory

Ed Officer

[Hilary]

Have we had this on the Old Mersey Times site

16 Jan 1861
at the residence of his father in law Charles Haswell Foregate Street Chester Robert Mansfied Lloyd aged 83

There is an inputted entry of a Charles Haswell marrying a Mary Lloyd in 1821 and then one saying he married a Mary Hughes. I wonder if he married twice.


I've just had a bit of a giggle
Charles Haswell married Ann Almond on 18 March 1811 at St James Liverpool

CHarles Haswell their son was christened on 18 March 1811 at St Johns Old Haymarket birth date given as 23 December 1809

Ed Officer

[simone]

Hi Ed

No we hadn't had that entry from Old Mersey Times before

We reckoned that Charles had already been born before the marriage and was the illigitemate son of Ann Almond. His name is Charles Almond Haswell. Wonder whey 2 different churches though

I have an illigitimate son baptised the same day as parents marriage, but at least it was at the same church

Simone x

[colette]

Sounds promising this Robert Sharp Margaret Haswell ..

There were two Charles Haswells having kids in Chester around the time Charles & Ann were having theres..Charles & Mary were the other couple....

Need to track Margaret Haswell in 1841 & 51

xx

[colette]

1861 7a Castle Square Windsor St Tox

Head Robert Sharpe age 55 b Cumberland Rope Maker
Wife Margaret age 42 b Chester
Dau Margaret A age 7 b Lpool
Son David age 4 b Lpool

1871 16 Marsh Hall Lane Widness

Head Robert Sharpe age 65 Widower b Egemont Cumberland Hackler Canvas Factory (Combed or "carded" the coarse flax, using a hackle - a toothed implement - in linen making)

Dau Mary age 18 b Lpool Factory Operative
Son David age 15 b Lpool

Worried about Margarets age..makes her born c 1821.

In 1851 Robert was living in Doncaster St by Hopwood St quiet far from where the other Haswells were living..Margaret must have been working near by for them to meet..we need to find her in 1841 & 1851


xx

[Hilary]

1851 census 18 Gloucester Place West Derby
HO107 piece 2192 folio 84 page 9

Margaret Haswell unmarried 30 general servant born Chester Nantwich

She is a servant to a Mills family. The image is very very faint.

1851 census HO107 piece2171 folio 615 p1 St oswald area of Chester

Margaret Haswell age 27 is the wife of George Haswell age 29 with a dasughter Mary Margaret age 1. All born Chester

Ed Officer

[simone]

There's this one, but born Nantwich
1851 HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 84; Page: 9
Gloucester Place
George A Mills 45
Catharine Mills 47
Arthur W Mills 16
Jane F Mills 12
Margaret Haswell 30

Simone x

[simone]

snap Ed

[simone]

we could do with a look at the 1852 Sharp/Haswell marriage. It may have ages for them and witnesses may help would also confirm occ for Robert, and we could tie it up with the census entry maybe.

just can't believe the coincidence of him being a Robert and a Ropemaker

[colette]

Hi

what if Peggy was actualy born 1821 and baptised 1827

funny thing is Charles Haswell is buried St Johns Chester..14th June 1827 Peggy is baptised 14th June 1827

What if she hadnt been baptised and after the funeral Ann had her baptised aged about 6 years old..stranger things have happened..

The only child missing is William born c 1818.

If Peggy had been baptised any other date in 1827 i would have thought it cant be her but on the day of her fathers funeral thats too odd to me..

the one we have found in 1851 in Gloucester Place says born Nantwich. then the one with Robert says born Chester..its a real pity she had died by 1871..but she has to be out there in 1841..she must be near her family..


xx

[simone]

hmm yes Col if she was born 1821 it's a better age to be having Samuel ooh soo frustrating trying to make it fit

Simone x

[colette]

Hi Simon

Yes its not normal to have a baptism and a Funeral on the same day is it..

and why cant we find William Haswell's baptism when all his siblings are there before and after him, could be.. Ann & Charles couldnt be bothered after the first 3 and then the next time they use the church is to bury Charles.. so maybe the priest said you must have that child baptised before i bury your husband.. it was 1827 and things were alot different back then..maybe young William wouldnt go to the church..kids can be funny maybe he was too uspet with his dad dying... who knows.

still cant see Margaret in 1841..

xx

[MaryA]

I would think the reason for the baptism on the same day is so that all the children were covered by the parish, without a father they may have needed assistance and the church would have responsibility for only those children who were baptised there.

If there is any chance of the Church records being checked an application for parish relief might be found.

Again Cheshire - Charles was very young to die - could it have been an accident and would there be anything in the newspaper? Added - checked online, have you already found this? sorry if you have there's so much in this thread.

Liverpool Mercury Friday, June 22, 1827; Issue 839
On Tuesday 12th Instant, after a protracted illness Charles Haswell of Bridge Street, Chester.

So the family was well off enough to have notice placed in the newspaper.

I did wonder about a Removal Order and that might be how they went to Liverpool, but didn't come across anything on A2a except "Bill of costs of prosecution of Anne Haswell QSP/3168/83 c1842". This is held in Lancashire Record Office and of course there's no certainty it's the same Anne, but maybe worth checking IF anybody is visiting there.