1861 census look-up, please

Post by **daggers** » 25 Oct 2009 16:52

In the Post Office Direcory of Lancashire, 1858 edition, a John Blyth, joiner and builder is listed at 60 Smithdown Lane, which should be between Blanche and Mildred Streets.
Could anyone with the 1861 census see if he is there, and if so let me have the family or household details?
Many thanks in advance.
D

Post by **MaryA** » 25 Oct 2009 18:01

How old are you expecting your John to be? and any ideas as to who he married?

There is a 25 year old Miller with wife Henrietta (26) both born Scotland and son Alexander 1, born Wavertree, living in Wavertree Road, Wavertree.
RG9; Piece: 2737; Folio: 73; Page: 16

and
a 61 year old builder, born Runcorn, Cheshire with wife Mary 58, born Liverpool, living 89 Chatsworth Sq? West Derby
RG9; Piece: 2730; Folio: 51; Page: 10

Unless anybody can come across Smithdown Lane on their travels?

Post by **daggers** » 25 Oct 2009 18:24

Mary
Very nice to meet you yesterday and what a good day it seemed to be at St George's Hall [until I left in a rainstorm!].

The miller is the man I hoped it might be at Smithdown Lane, and it still could be, as they seem to have been adaptable as far as jobs went when touching down here from Scotland.

I am afraid this one is not conclusive.
D

Post by **MaryA** » 25 Oct 2009 18:24

Sorry Daggers, they've moved by 1861, I managed to find Smithdown Lane and in 60 there is a Thomas Muir 37, Fruit Warehouseman from Scotland and his wife Sarah 36 from Wells, Somerset and son John 2 born West Derby.
RG9; Piece: 2732; Folio: 105; Page: 22

Edited - sorry folks I think I've led you up the garden path, it WAS Smithdown Lane not Road that I found, my fingers typed the wrong word

Post by **MaryA** » 25 Oct 2009 18:27

Our messages crossed! Do you need to go further with this family? forward or backward?

It was very good to see you at St George's Hall, now I know what you look like when I'm answering you. It was a very busy day and quite a few of the forum members turn up which was wonderful.

daggers wrote: [until I left in a rainstorm!].

It rained? I didn't see daylight all day and didn't have a clue

Mary

Post by **dickiesam** » 25 Oct 2009 18:35

There are 3 listed in 1861 in FMP:

Smithdown Lane - Toxteth Park - West Derby - Lancashire.
Smithdown Lane - West Derby - West Derby - Lancashire.
Smithdown Lane - West Derby, Liverpool - West Derby - Lancashire.

The Toxteth Park lane has few dwellings. 3 pubs, a farm, a couple of private houses, then the 'township workhouse', the cemetery, then 3 dwellings that must have been fairly large judging by the number of people in residence.

The second one has over 200 listed dwellings and #60 is occupied by the Muir family. The last one has 3 dwellings, #s 23, 25 and 27.

I'm wondering if it was a very long lane that ran through 3 census sub-districts and was split into 3? Have to get the map experts to have a look?

Dickiesam

Post by **Tina** » 26 Oct 2009 04:49

Hi folks
Both halves of Smithdown Lane were Lpool 7. I've seen it listed as Edge Hill, Wavertree, Kensington & Tox Park.
Chatsworth St ran off Smithdown Lane at the Tunnel Rd end.
Mary, I reckon it's him in 1861.

1861 this will get you into one part of Smithdown Lane, the Industrial School
Helen Long RG9/2734/45/35
different end
John Westwick RG9/2732/103/17

1851 John was in Portwood St again off Smithy Lane, opposite side to Chatsworth.

TTFN
Tina

Added: I've just noticed

his wife was Mary in 61 & Ellen in 71.
He may have married Ellen O'Brien in 1865 at Matthew's

Post by **daggers** » 26 Oct 2009 22:18

Thanks for all that input. I met MaryA on Saturday at the Fair, spent Sunday recovering and today touring round old family haunts with a newly found 3rd cousin, hence my delayed response.

Tina
Could you post details of the 1851 Blyth in Portwood St please? More clues might help to confirm or rule him out.
D

Post by **Tina** » 27 Oct 2009 09:05

Hi Daggers, that's just great about meeting Mary and a new rellie

1851 at 31 Portwood St
John Blythe joiner bn 51 bn Runcorn
Mary 47 bn Liverpool no kiddies.

Tina

Added 1841 will list details
He is in Tox Park I think, address?
Mary is listed as 53?
John Blythe, joiner 41 not born county.
HO197 piece 568 Book 16 folio 28 page 13

Post by **daggers** » 27 Oct 2009 09:29

Tina
Thanks for the info. The 'born Runcorn' knocks out any chance of the Blyth[e] man being one of mine, as they came from Scotland, and his wife was not Mary. The 1841 could not be him either.
Thanks anyway, it is almost as good to be able to eliminate as to confirm.
D

Post by **Tina** » 27 Oct 2009 09:44

Hi Daggers
All the way through posted census John Blythe builder/joiner has been born in Runcorn.
If you could list anything about his Scottish birth, that would be a great help.
Thanks me dear

Tina

Post by **daggers** » 27 Oct 2009 09:50

I'm all OK with John Blyth once he settled in Wavertree - it is timing of the move from Edinburgh district to Lpool, possibly via Manchester, between 1857/1860 where I am focusing, but not to worry, I am just too picky!
D

Post by **MaryA** » 27 Oct 2009 12:31

daggers wrote:I met MaryA on Saturday at the Fair, spent Sunday recovering

I wonder what I did to wear you out?

If the miller is your guy then there's a fair difference in ages, do you know approximately when the one you are looking for was born?

Post by **daggers** » 28 Oct 2009 09:50

QUOTE: I wonder what I did to wear you out?
Mary - just joking - it was the number of stalls and people that wore me out!

John Blyth was born in Gilmerton, now in Edinburgh, in 1834 and his wife was Henrietta. I have him well tracked apart from those odd years in transit to Wavertree, possibly via Manchester and after arrival. Why did people thoughtlessly leave no trace between census years?
I shall have to leave him for now, but thanks again to all who have put in info.
D

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Oct 2009 10:56

Did a place name search of the 1851 Scotland census and only two people popped up with birthplace Gilberton, one claimed it was Lanarkshire the other Edinburgh, Midlothian. So it was obviously no use searching for John with Gilberton as keyword.

However, in case it's of any use, and if you know his parents names -
13 Brunswick Street, Edinburgh St Cuthberts
David Blyth 58 Shoemaker Falkland, Fifeshire
Agnes 42 Gongie Mills, Fifeshire
James 17 Shoemaker Edinburgh, Midlothian
John 14 Message Boy Edinburgh, Midlothian
Fanny 11 Scholar Edinburgh, Midlothian
David 9 Scholar Edinburgh, Midlothian
Robert 8 Edinburgh, Midlothian
Alexander 4 Edinburgh, Midlothian
ED: 9B; Page: 15; Line: 1; Roll 928

Post by **Tina** » 28 Oct 2009 11:14

Okies Daggers, Runcorn bloke is not your man.
Here is 1891 for the peeps....
Posh address
Victoria Park Wavertree "The Hollies"...no not the group

]
John Blyth 56 maried no spouse, ?Merchant
RG12/3002/128/28

1881 Wellington Road
George McK from 1891 census listed as son/brother?
His brother Alexander is the head of the household.
RG11/3718/11/15

John H Blyth 17 bn Wavertree visiting in North Meols
So many people listed, probably a Hotel.
Interesting that Alexander ends up in Garston where my Ed is from and I am born in Wavertree

Sorry Daggers, do not know where they were before Wavertree in 1861 census.
Married in Scotland?

Tina

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Oct 2009 15:00

Just to say that although I don't have credits for Scotlandspeople, you can do a search for free and a marriage search between 1855 and 1861 produces one result for a John Blyth marriage, spouse first name Henrietta.

Post by **daggers** » 31 Oct 2009 11:18

Back after chasing a couple of baps in Westmorland, successfully.

Tina, Yes to all your refs to The Hollies [demolished years ago], George McK, Alex and North Meols - that was a hotel.

Mary, that is the correct John Blyth and Henrietta.
Henrietta was one of four Davidson sisters - we have an old glass photo of them with their mother - very fixed poses. Three of the sisters came to Wavertree with their husbands and worked at the mill in Wellington Road, Wavertree, living in the Mill house or the cottages in Mill Row alongside. The only evidence of it now is on maps and a single surviving bill-head.

On Monday I met a descendant of one of the other sisters having linked via this forum in June, and showed her the site of the mill - demolished in the early 1900s and replaced by houses. Without knowing it at the time, her father had worked alongside another cousin - small world!!!

D

Post by **MaryA** » 31 Oct 2009 18:10

Oooh I remember that run with the mill, great that you managed to meet up!

Post by **Tina** » 01 Nov 2009 07:51

I remember your Wavertree Mill too.
Fantastic you met up with a "rellie" so to speak.
When you mentioned "baps" you had my mouth watering!!

Tina