Haswell help needed

[Carol1953]

Hello everyone
I am new to the board and although been doing my family for 20+ years I am helping a family member with his.
We have a good puzzle, his name is Samuel HASWELL, I have Samuel on census 1861 - 1901 always stating born Liverpool 1841. We cannot find him anywhere in the census prior.
The are no Samuel Haswell born anywhere near that date.
He married for the first time an Elizabeth HANLEY at St Stephen the Martyr, Crown St, Edge Hill Jun Q 1860 according to Lancs BMD site. I have emailed the OPC and he says will be a long time before they get the records.
Can anyone help me with this record by doing a look up?
Thank you
Carol

[Hilary]

Welcome to our forum

Some kind person may be able to help with a look up. If not you could purchase the certificate from the GRO at a cost of £7.

Ed Officer

[Pegasus]

Carol.

I did a quick check & the only 'Samuel HASWELL' listed as being born between March 1838 - Dec 1843 on a general search of Freebdm is:

March Qtr 1839 Newcastle upon Tyne 25 335

If this is not Your Samuel then at least you can mark this for future refference?

[Pegasus]

Carol.

Further Search s found:

Maria HASWELL Bn 1840 Sub District: Dale Street, Liverpool (ref: DALE/9/90)

Around the right area, Could be related?

[CaroleW]

Maria Haswell was the daughter of Eliza - a widow living at 38 Old Hall St in 1851 - no other children shown. Eliza was a shoe dealer b Ireland

Samuel's birthyear only varies slightly - 1840-1842 but birthplace is always Liverpool

I've checked female Haswell marriages from 1840-1851 but none match with a son Samuel - in case he was illegitimate and mum married pre-1851

[CaroleW]

Carol

I know this doesn't help with the search for Samuel but as a bye the bye - did you know that the baptisms of all Samuel & Eliza's children b London are on Ancestry. From Eliza in 1870 to Ellen in 1885. They are not on the IGI

I have sent you a pm with all details

[Tina]

Hi Carol
Nice to "meet" you.
My suggestion would be to list a new post asking for SKP to do a look up next time at LRO for 1860 marriage.

List all the details as you have done here.

Fingers crossed XX

Tina

ps I think your Samuel in Edge Hill & my ggpa worked together at the "Ropey"...

[colette]

Liverpool Mercury

Death 23rd Jan 1822

Mary Haswell aged 60 wife of Thomas Haswell Bootmaker Oldhall St..

Death 17th Oct 1842

Mary Haswell aged 37 wife of John Haswell Oldhall St

Marriage 1844 St Brides

Miss M Haswell eldest daughter of John Haswell Oldhall St to William Waddilove..Williams father Richard Waddilove..

Death Jan 26th 1847

Miss Henrietta B Haswell at brothers house Lark Lane Toxteth

Marriage March 16th 1852 St Michael's

Miss Eliza Jane Haswell to James Riley daughter of the late John Haswell of Oldhall St

Death Sept 13th

Maria Haswell aged 25 only daughter of the late John Haswell of this town

Jan 1846 Death

Charles Haswell aged 2 of Pleasant St where he lived with his parents drank a tea cup containing Oil..


Just incase somehwere down the line any of these are connected to Samuel.....

Not sure why its says Maria is the only daughter of John Haswell uless they mean that had not yet married OR was there another John Haswell as they all seem to be in Oldhall St...


xx

[colette]

Hi

It looking to me that Samuel is a real mystery as you said...when theres no trace of someone theres something wrong... either he is using a middle name.. or he wasn't born Haswell..

Only his marriage cert will give you an answer you need a fathers name..

I am wondering why he ended up in London, could it be his roots are from there..


xx

[colette]

Hi Carole

working on a family..

John & Harriet Higginson living in Luke St Toxteth in 1841, with them is

Charles Haswell b 1810 Chester and William Haswell b 1818 Chester

Harriet Higginson is there sister..by 1851 they are living in Shannon St West Derby
Charles has gone but William Haswell is there with his daughter also named Harriet b 1845 he is now a Widower.

John & Harriet Higginson in 1861 are living in Lissant St West Derby now whats interesting is Samuels' first wife Elizabeth died in 1864 she is buried in Toxteth in a Public Grave..and her address was Back Myers St..

which is behind Lissant Street.. infact all these streets are in the same area... even Chatsworth St were Samuel was living in 1861.

So what i am wondering now is was William Samuel's step father...
there are two William Haswell marriages Dec 1841


Marriages Dec 1842 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COOPER Jane Liverpool 20 146
EVANS William Liverpool 20 146
HASWELL William Liverpool 20 146
LLOYD Margaret Liverpool 20 146
Mooney Edward Liverpool 20 146
Robinson Alice Liverpool 20 146
Walker John Liverpool 20 146
Williams Jane Liverpool 20 146




Marriages Dec 1842 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CUBBIN John Liverpool 20 301
EVANS Thomas Liverpool 20 301
GEORGE Sarah Jane Liverpool 20 301
HASWELL Charles Liverpool 20 301
HASWELL William Liverpool 20 301
Jones Martha Liverpool 20 301
Neill James Liverpool 20 301
PRICE Martha Liverpool 20 301

Its hard to work out who was with who.. even Lancs BMD isnt helping..

William's daughter named her first child Jane H so i am wondering if Jane was her mums name...

Also your Samuel has children Harriet, William & Charles.....

My theory is who ever William married she had a son out of wedlock named Samuel when he met her..so he would have her name.. and this child possibly lived with her family...

Williams daughter Harriet married Archibald P Goodman in Dec 1861..and i cant find her dad William in 1861 or 1871 so maybe he died...

Its just all the streets being by one another and Samuel's kids names.. i thought maybe theres a connection here..

Samuel's forst child was called Joseph, did he die ??? wondering where he is buried if mum is in Toxteth ??? Elizabeth Hanley's dad was called Joseph wasn't he..

Can't wait to see his first marriage cert now..do we have any idea what church he married in in Middlesex ??????



xx

[MaryA]

John Cubbin married Martha Price in St PHillips
Charles Haswell married Sarah Jane George in St Phillips
James Neill married Sarah Griffiths in St Phillips
Thomas Evans married Martha Jones in St Phillips.

That's narrowed down some but the others aren't quite as easy, although I think it might be worthwhile trying to pin some of the others down here http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/ as maybe they were RC.

Edited due to amendment - There is no William Haswell on GRO ref 20 301, so definitely looking at the other set of marriages.

[MaryA]

Can't wait to see his first marriage cert now..do we have any idea what church he married in in Middlesex ??????

Where is Middlesex mentioned for a marriage? what names and approx date? a lot of them are on Ancestry and this could possibly be found?

PS no marriage for Samuel Haswell of the appropriate dates was found in the London Archives.

[colette]

Hi Mary

Carol sent me this..

He married Eliza Clark at the Poplar Weslyan Chapel East India Dock Rd London 1868. I have checked Ancestry and this church is not there in the records.
As to Joseph in 1861 we don't know what happened to him and we think he may be Elizabeth's son prior to marriage as he disappears after 1861.
The family don't know why he went to London after the death of his 1st wife but there a lot of Haswell's down there maybe he went to be with (poss step fathers family)
Carol


This was his second marriage first to Elizabeth Hanley 1860 St Stephen The Martyr..Elizabeth died 1864 aged 23 back myers st.

xx

[colette]

Hi Carole

http://www.eolfhs.org.uk/parish/poplar.htm

Church Records:
All Saints, East India Dock Rd (including Poplar Chapel)
Baptisms 1728-1985, Marriages 1711-1989, Burials 1802-1917 : LMA
Burial Order Book 1824-1838 : EoLFHS Publications

xx

[dickiesam]

He married Eliza Clark at the Poplar Weslyan Chapel East India Dock Rd London 1868. I have checked Ancestry and this church is not there in the records.

There's a mention here about the Wesleyan Chapel:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=46482

Dickiesam

[Carol1953]

Well the mystery thickens I asked for a look up at the library this is the reply I got tonight

The father of Samuel Haswell is Robert Haswell - Ropemaker.
Thankyou
Liverpool Record Office

[colette]

No way oh i am gutted..my theory is looking so wrong..better try work on a Robert now

[simone]

I've been looking for Ropemakers, can't find any Roberts who were, with different variations on surname even

Wonder if he made him up

Simone x

[colette]

Strange that he doesnt name a son Robert... a few times i have seen a groom who was illegitimate put down their mothers father names so their Grandads name..this could be the case here...

As my theory of him being Williams son seems to have gone out the window..pity really as it was all fitting together nice.. William had a sister named Harriet and a brother named Charles..plus Samuel lived a street behind Harriet in 1861..even named some of his kids these names too.

I would still love to know who little Harriet Haswell belonged to who died July 1864 at 24 Lissant St aged 8 months..Eliza Samuels wife died May 1864 at Back Myers St..the street behind Lissant St...so close..

Oh well i have been looking for a Robert Haswell and zilch if he exsited he would have to be around in 1842 when Samuel was born well 1841 at least .
Samuel is adament he was born in Liverpool every census he says so..he too was a Rope Maker so hes learnt his trade from another Rope Maker..


Has anyone checked the full births index on find my past.. as free BMD is not complete for 1841-42 and Ancestry doesnt have the full index either...

Its just a thought..

xx

[simone]

Hi

I've been through the indexes 1837 to 1842..

There is Samuel Haswell that Dickesam mentioned - Mar q 1839 Newcastle on Tyne vol25 page 335
interestingly also a Robert Haswell sep q 1839 Newcastle on Tyne vol 20 page 327?, could be a relative of this Samuel.

{as an aside - also Josiah Haswell Jun q 1839 Liverpool vol 20 page 335} (funny how on same page number as Samuel in Newcastle )

did also notice the birth for Maria in 1840.

wonder if he only thought he was born Liverpool.

Also wonder who the witnesses are at Samuel's marriage

be back later

Simone x