Scotland Place and Downe Street

Post by **arthur2063** » 05 Sep 2009 07:49

According to Gore's Directory of 1827, my ancestor, John Molyneux, was a victualler and stable keeper at 20 Scotland Place with stables and yard at 1 Downe Street. Neither addresses appear in modern maps, so I've tried looking at historical maps, but as I have no idea whereabouts in Liverpool these streets were located, I'm having difficulty tracking them down. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks
Heather

Post by **MaryA** » 05 Sep 2009 08:23

I suspect somebody might have an idea but meantime can you tell us where they were in the 1841 census, might give some clues.

Post by **Tina** » 05 Sep 2009 08:30

Hi Heather
I've 1853 Directory, Scotland Place Islington listed. I looked at the most unusual surname to search in 1851, Blezard at No. 12 Wine & Spirit Merchants. (There's also the Star Inn at No. 5)
Richmond Row is listed before it.
Modern streetmap.co has R.Row listed.

Do you have Anc##??
Here's the link for Blezard
HO107/2185/408/48

I'm sure other members will have info closer to the time frame.

All the best

Tina

Post by **arthur2063** » 05 Sep 2009 08:33

John died in 1829 and his wife remarried in 1830, so I'm not sure that this will help. His wife was living with her new husband, Barnabas Hesketh and one of her children from her first marriage, in Marybone in 1841.

Post by **MaryA** » 05 Sep 2009 08:45

Thanks Tina.

The Enumerator's walk says - well as much as I can make out of his handwriting!

Parish of Liverpool (part of) Saint Anne Street Ward (part of).
All that part comprising Richmond Row both sides from Saint Anne Street to bottom of street at Scotland Place, Nash Street, Clare Place, Pepper Street, Scotland Place.

So search for Rose Place, (L3 3BN) on a modern day map and you will see Richmond Row is parallel to it (don't know why the mapsite won't find it).

Post by **Tina** » 05 Sep 2009 08:55

Thanks to you too Mary (and for the little gems comment

)

Hi Arthur, 1853 Directory has Barnabas Hesketh cart owner & beer house keeper at 59 Marybone.

Tina

Post by **arthur2063** » 05 Sep 2009 08:56

Thanks Mary and Tina, with your help I've located Scotland Place. It was the bit that linked Scotland Road with Byrom Street. It's a while since I've been in that part of Liverpool, but I think it's now under the glorious gyratory built as part of the Kingsway development.

Presume Downe Street was in the same area, so shall just have to keep looking.

Best wishes
Heather

Post by **Tina** » 05 Sep 2009 09:25

Hi Heather
Here's a link to an Ordnance Survey Map which shows Richmond Row, as you will see around are a myriad of streets with no names.

All the best

Tina

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapshe ... &x=8&y=351

Post by **arthur2063** » 05 Sep 2009 09:59

Found Downe Street! Modern maps show Richmond Row ending at St Anne Street, but originally it carried on down to Scotland Place. I think what is now Byrom Way was originally the bottom end of Richmond Row, and Downe Street was just off there.

For future information, the best source I have found for historical maps and photographs of Liverpool is Tony Swarbrick's site at http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/

Thanks for all your help
Heather

Post by **Tina** » 05 Sep 2009 10:35

Hi Heather
A visitor to our site emailed me to say a block of tenements were built called Downe House and yes you are right about it all being under the motorway.
Here's a link to the 1832 poll book from our Society.

http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/1 ... /pollh.htm

Barnabas in Webster St.

Tina

Post by **arthur2063** » 05 Sep 2009 11:07

Tina, you are the most expert lateral thinker I've ever come across! Why you thought to look at the poll book I'm not sure, but by doing so, you've solved another mystery for me.

John Molyneux's daughter, Margaret, married a cow keeper, James Spencer, and I have often wondered how they met. Family folklore has it that our Molyneuxs are members of THE Molyneux family but I've found no evidence of this (although I have been able to link to THE Erskine family via a member of the Wood family we've corresponded about before) and that Margaret married without her father's consent so he cut her off. Well, I've managed to blow this theory out of the water by finding out her father died 8 years before she was married, and I think I also now have the answer to how she DID meet her husband.

Henry Spencer (father of James) is listed in the poll book as a cattle dealer in... Webster Street! Margaret must have moved with her mother to Webster Street after she married Barnabus Hesketh, and her husband to be would have been a close neighbour.

Thanks!
Heather

Post by **MaryA** » 05 Sep 2009 18:04

arthur2063 wrote: For future information, the best source I have found for historical maps and photographs of Liverpool is Tony Swarbrick's site at http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/

Yes we know all about our Tony's site, he's done some great work on the history of Liverpool and so willing to share.

You'll get used to our Tina too thinking around boxes

she knows about many of the resources available to us, if you check down our "For Posterity" and "Websites" Boards you will see how much information our crew have either published themselves or come across and thought worthwhile sharing with us all.

Post by **Tina** » 06 Sep 2009 08:43

Just have to say Mary "our Tina"...you've made my day!

Everyone called me that in the familia....
It is so wonderful to belong even though I'm across the globe.

May I add a Very Happy Aussie Father's Day to all the blokes (some from Liverpool could have fathered a little Aussie

)

and Mother's Day is 9months later

Tina x

Post by **Tina** » 06 Sep 2009 08:47

Hi Heather
I'm so very pleased you have solved another family puzzle, we all know what a buzz it gives.

Tina