Seeking William Lee, Blacksmith early 1800s

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 30 Aug 2009 10:50

My paternal Gr, gr grandfather William Lee Gasfitter (born about 1830/31 in Liverpool) married in Sep 1853 at St Peters. he was living in Dryden St at the time of his marriage. On the marriage certificate he lists his father as also William Lee, father's occupation is Blacksmith.

Have not found any definitive links prior to 1853 for William or his father - there is a Margaret Lee with a son William (1828) in Toxteh Park in 1841

On IGI there is a William Lee baptised on 30 Nov 1829 at St Peters Father William Mother Mary

I would love some advice about other sources
Thanks

Post by **Tina** » 30 Aug 2009 11:07

Hi Sandy
Do you have him with his wife in 1861?

Tks

Tina

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 30 Aug 2009 11:29

Hi Tina having an indian summer here how about you? I have 1830ish William in 1861, 71, 81 and his wife Margaret Ellams in 1891. Also have Margaret in 1841 & 51.
I'm trying to do more work before coming to the forum these days - using what they have taught me so far.

Thanks

Post by **colette** » 30 Aug 2009 20:00

Hi

Does the marriage cert give a number in Dryden St ???

xx

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Aug 2009 20:02

These are the details from the marriage cert.

"25th September 1853 marriage at St Peters Liverpool
Groom - William Lee, full age , Bachelor, Gasfitter, Dryden Street. Father William lee, Blacksmith.
Bride - Margaret Ellams, minor (abt 16/17) Spinster, Virgel St, Father William Ellams, Carter (seem to have a lot of them in my tree on many sides!).
In the presence of Stephen Lunt and Ann Ellams. Not sure who Ann Ellams is as I have Margaret's sister as Ellen.
by R Duncan (I think) Curate."

Enclosed in quotes since it's from Sandy not me

Post by **simone** » 30 Aug 2009 20:56

Hi

There is in Dryden Street 1851 HO107 2176 324 33
8 Owens Place, Dryden Street
Name Age
John Evans 37
Sarah Evans 22
Margt Evans 1 Mo
Margt Lan 61 actually 'Lea'

37 Dryden Street HO107; Piece: 2176; Folio: 341; Page: 11
Peter Lee 36 bricklayer b Liverpool
Catherine Lee 35
Jergus Linn 32
John Lee 12
Julia Lee 7
Peter Lee 3

Simone x

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 31 Aug 2009 01:28

Thanks Mary & Simone. Interestingly the names William, Peter & John Lee also Margaret.are a strong theme across subsequent generations including my dad & brother so these are possiby relatives. The groom in 1853 (my gr gr grandfather called his sons John, William & Peter (my gr grandfather).

cheers

Post by **simone** » 31 Aug 2009 08:20

Not sure if they go that far back at Huyton Library but I will try and get in this week to see if the baptism says William Lee is a Blacksmith

Also a marriage William Lee to Mary Ann Ellis at St Peters 5/9/1825.

Simone x

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 01 Sep 2009 08:52

Thanks Simone I would appreciate that. There are a number of lee children including a William listed as being in the Blue Coat Hospital in the 1841 census perhaps something happened to William & Mary.
Just had the most beautiful spring day here.
cheers

Post by **simone** » 02 Sep 2009 15:22

Hi Sandy

don't know if we're coming or going with the weather here, one minute the sun peeps out. next minute it's torrential rain

Anyway, had a look and this William b 1829, father Ropemaker

,so wrong family, also, William Lees baptised 1832, his father was a shoemaker.

Sorry

Maybe the one in Bluecoat is yours then

Simone x

Post by **MaryA** » 02 Sep 2009 15:30

There are Application and Admissions Books for the Bluecoat School in the Record Office. At a much later date - ie 1886 - there was a lot of information for each applicant, unfortunately I've looked for entries at earlier dates where the detail has been very sparse, so there's no guarantees what you will find, but there is the possibility that you will get his father's name and occupation confirmed and also whether the child himself was baptised.

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 03 Sep 2009 08:48

I couldn't find access to Bluecoat records online so I guess it's a look up job. I will do more investigating of the Dryden Street addresses you have provided as I'm thinking that william could have been perhaps staying with the John Lee found by Simone when he married.

I will also examine the list of Bluecoat folk as there was more than one William Lee. I do appreciate the hard work you've done to date. Thanks.

Do you think I should seek a researcher for these records due to complexity?
cheers

Post by **simone** » 03 Sep 2009 15:53

Hi Sandy

I'm sure one of us on here would look for you rather than have you pay a researcher

I certainly would when I am going... I can't see that the Bluecoat records would be too diffucult to look through. I assume that they are on microfilm so would just need scrolling through

, is that right Mary

I was wondering if Margaret Lea could have been his mother

you have a William on the 1841 with Margaret mother, so as he married from Dryden Street in 1853, could the Margaret Lea there be his mother? age is out but still possible with the rounding of ages on 1841 census

Simone x

Post by **MaryA** » 03 Sep 2009 15:56

Nope, not unless they have recently filmed them - you have the absolute joy of scrolling page by page through a huge register a couple of hundred years old, placed on a cushion to preserve the spine and with a card in your hand to guide down the lines so you don't smudge the writing, in the archive section. Try it, it's worth it!

If I remember rightly, there is something of an index to guide you to the date in question, but maybe not for the whole time, some of the early years were a little sparse of detail.

Post by **simone** » 03 Sep 2009 16:04

That's even better Mary

love going through the original registers for things

btw Sandy, who were the witnesses on the marriage cert?

Simone x

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 04 Sep 2009 09:28

The witnesses at the wedding were Stephen Lunt and Ann Ellams

Less certain about the Bluecoat Hospital now as when I went back to the 1841 entry there were 2 Richard Lee entries - an 11 yr old and a 10 yr old and William Lea aged 9 and wrong spelling.

It is possible that one of the Richards could belong to the 1841 Margaret Lee (HO 107 piece 568; folio 19/9; page 10) as Mary found one in 1851 with Richard 28, Joseph, 18 & George 15. William seems to be missing. HO107; Piece 2183; Folio 54; Page 45. The only other conflictig fact is that in 1841 Margaret was listed as not born in Lancashire but in 1851 the Margaret is listed as born in Liverpool.

I will also continue to pursue the William Lee shoemaker - perhaps they were for horses

he is listed in Horatia street in the St Martin district with John aged 15 and William aged 12. HO 107; piece 563; Folio 5/26; page 2.

cheers

Post by **Hilary** » 04 Sep 2009 09:34

I've not followed the whole story as I've been away but for what it's worth I wouldn't dismiss Lea as being the wrong spelling at this time people were not as sure of spelling as we are now.

I wouldn't worry too much either about the changing place of birth. Yesterday I found someone who in 1891 says bn Liverpool, 1901 bn Belfast, 1911 bn Manchester!

I think it's very unlikely a shoemaker could be a euphenism for a Blacksmith they were 2 very different skilled jobs.

Ed Officer

Post by **Tina** » 04 Sep 2009 11:51

Probably nothing: William Ellams married Jane Lunt
1871 Tox Park St Clement

Tina

Post by **S_Lawler_Lee** » 04 Sep 2009 23:25

Wow Tina I'm sure it is not "nothing" Margaret had a brother William born in 1832. Since there was obviously a friendship between William lee and Stephen Lunt (marriage witness)it is entirely possible that descendants knew each other and possible wed. Mary might know - does this mean we're related?

cheers - supposed to be on way to Sydney but couldn't resist a quick look

Post by **MaryA** » 05 Sep 2009 08:21

Tina you find some little gems!

Not my lot I'm afraid, but if it would help our research I'd claim relationship with most people

I think we'll have to construct another tree to find out about this connection, I do remember looking into Stephen and finding him missing on some of the censuses, but there's only the one in the right area, look at this later if I get the chance .... and if nobody's got there before me!