help please - Grant Family, Ireland to Liverpool

Post by **sally13** » 12 Jul 2009 18:06

hi everyone i am trying to find information for bernard grant born abt 1856 in ireland. his son stephen grant was my grandfather who i believe was born in lpool abt 1885 he married sarah mullhollhand in1917. any info would be great mainly for bernard grant thanks afterthought how can i view divorce records thanks
sally

Post by **MaryA** » 12 Jul 2009 18:27

Please give full details from Stephen's marriage certificate. What was his age, where did he live. What was Bernard's occupation? Was he noted as deceased?

Try The National Archives for divorce records, depends on the date you are interested in.

Post by **MaryA** » 12 Jul 2009 18:37

If you don't have the marriage certificate the details you will need are

Sarah C Mulholland married Stephen Grant Q2 1919 West Derby 6b 1111. The marriage was noted as Register Office or Registrar Attended, which possibly means that it took place in a Catholic Church.
You can order the certificate online at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ with the above information.

Post by **sally13** » 12 Jul 2009 21:22

stephen grant was 32 lived in kirkdale can't make out street bernard grant dock labourer. sally13

Post by **mapwoman** » 12 Jul 2009 21:23

Hi Sally

If you look here: http://www.brsgenealogy.com/ there are six matches for Bernard Grant born between 1853-1858 in Ireland, one in Co Antrim, two in Co Down and three in Co Armagh. The indexes on the site are free to search, but there's a 5 euro charge to view each entry. Note though that all the Irish counties aren't yet covered, although most are, so there could be other Bernard Grants still out there.

Good luck
Ann

Post by **sally13** » 12 Jul 2009 21:38

hi ann thanks will try the website tomorrow. too tired now sally

Post by **Tina** » 13 Jul 2009 09:10

Hi folks
I can find Bernard okies right age & born Ire, labr in 2 census living in Bootle/Kirkdale but no Stephen.

Tina

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Jul 2009 12:02

Tina wrote:Hi folks
I can find Bernard okies right age & born Ire, labr in 2 census living in Bootle/Kirkdale but no Stephen.

Tina

Me too, but can find a Stephen with father Matthew. As the marriage was in 1919 we are looking for a birth approximately 1887.

Post by **dickiesam** » 13 Jul 2009 12:12

Hi Sally13,
If you have a marriage for Bernard with his father's name on it this site may be worth searching. Like the one that Mapswoman suggested, it is free to search the indexes but there's a charge to view the entry. Looking for Bernard's birth you will need to know at least one of the parents' names.

http://www.irish-roots.ie/about-ifhf.asp
Most counties parish and church records are now digitised and on the web at this site.

Whose divorce are you interested in? As MaryA says it depends on the date. Another factor to remember is that before the late 1940s divorce could be an expensive process and often beyond the reach of the average working-class person. The 'cheaper' alternative was for one party to prove the couple been apart for, I believe, about 10 years. A relatively cheap visit to the local court was then all that was needed. I've 2 such instances in my rellies. Also, if the couple were Roman Catholic, back then divorce was usually a no-no. So the couple split up, set up home with someone else, had children, and married only when their ex died. I've also got 2 instances of that as well!

Cheers,
Dickiesam

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Jul 2009 12:27

Sally, if you would like us to try and work out the name of the street for you, perhaps you could scan part of the certificate - just the middle with lines of the bride and groom's details so that we have enough of the handwriting to compare with. Then there are instructions on how to post the picture on here. http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=6279

Also which church did the marriage take place in?

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Jul 2009 12:30

dickiesam wrote: Also, if the couple were Roman Catholic, back then divorce was usually a no-no. So the couple split up, set up home with someone else, had children, and married only when their ex died.

Or married anyway - I have one instance where I can't find the death of the first husband before the marriage to the second!!

Post by **dickiesam** » 13 Jul 2009 17:55

Hi folks,
The only Stephen Grant I can find, born in Lancs between 1880 and 1890 is this fellow:
Births Sep 1888 - GRANT - Stephen - West Derby 8b 391.

And like Tina and crew, I can only find a Stephen in the 1891 and 1901 with a father Matthew? Anyone found him in 1911?

I am wondering if the Stephen Grant on the marriage cert is another Grant altogether? Sally13, do you have the birth cert for the Stephen you are referring to or the one born in 1888?

There's certainly a Bernard Grant, born Ireland abt 1856, with spouse Mary A (!), in the 1891 and 1901. But no Stephen in the family. It's a bit of a teaser.
Dickiesam

Post by **sally13** » 13 Jul 2009 18:03

thanks to everyone for info. what tina said i really think this is right info bernard grant living bootle/kirkdale. i found a stephen grant born 1887 living elsewhere in 1911 which seem to match but need to make certain. the divorce i was interested in was sarah grant who was a RC so again i think what you said was more likely. after M to stephen grant in 1919 she got married to krestan or kirsten jenson in 1928. thanks again for your help and advice sally

Post by **dickiesam** » 13 Jul 2009 18:20

Hi Sally13,
I meant to include this link in my previous post. It's for the Divorce info you were looking for:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCS ... urt_id=735

As it is almost certain the divorce was granted in Liverpool this link will take you to the Liverpool Courts and you should approach their archives for advice. Incidentally, given the year that Sarah remarried, it is probable that the Decree Absolute was granted either then or the previous year.
Dickiesam

Post by **sally13** » 13 Jul 2009 18:25

dickiesam info seems to tie in stephen grant B 1888. the funny thing is four of mathew grant childrens names are the same as myself and siblings.but it is bernard grant who is my great gfather. you are all getting this info super quick. thanks. i will scan the certificate asap as i dont have a scanner.sally

Post by **Hilary** » 13 Jul 2009 19:00

Personally I think it is most unlikely that the lady was divorced. She was RC when divorce really wasn't classed as an option and anyhow was very expensive.

Have you checked that Stephen hasn't died in the meantime? I would also look for the lady's second marriage certificate and see whether she says widowed or divorced on it or whatever.

Ed Officer

Post by **dickiesam** » 13 Jul 2009 19:29

Hi all, been thinking about Sally13's comment that Bernard's children bore the same names as four of Matthew's yet B has only 2 children in the 1891 and 1901, one appears to have been born and another died in the interim. None of these children have the same names as any of Matthew's 9, although both spouses are Mary A Grant. She couldn't have been flitting from hubby to hubby could she?

)

Is this Matthew the one above?
Deaths Mar 1906 - Grant, Matthew - 52 - West Derby - 8b - 369.
The age is right for his given year of birth. So is he still alive in 1911?

I wonder whether Matthew and Bernard were brothers. If that deceased Matthew is who I think he could be, did Bernard take the family in? Some certs, birth and death, are needed as well as a couple of look-sees in the 1911, I think?
Dickiesam

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Jul 2009 20:12

There is definitely a Stephen Grant age 22 living in the Bootle area in 1911 but seems to be with a family of Robert 54 and Dora Ann 56 ORR and their children Robert 22, John 18, Margaret Ruth 15 and Florence 12. Do these names mean anything in connection with the Grant family or do you think he was just lodging there?

Can't seem to see either Mathew or Bernard in the 1911 census.

Definitely interested in his address and church where the marriage took place. If it was Bootle then we'd definitely be thinking along the right lines - somehow!

Post by **sally13** » 13 Jul 2009 22:12

hiya i have got my specs on and a magnifying glass.the church they got married in looks like ST alexanders and it could be st johns road kirkdale. re matthew grant my name and three of my siblings are the same as matthew grants children. sally13

Post by **sally13** » 13 Jul 2009 22:35

that thought crossed my mind about them being brothers. i haven't come accross the name orr. s grant he is down on the census as a lodger. i will get birth & marr certs when poss. thanks for all your help. after sarah grant m k jenson in 1928 she had a son in 1933 and gave him the surname grant. dont know what happened k jenson. just thought i'd slip that little bit in.sally13

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