Annie - Born Old Swan, abt1864 - Maiden name lookup please.

[JuliaB]

Hi All,

I'm back again after a long break - I was last on here at Christmas! It's been a long time! Hope everybody is well and that your tree's are growing nicely now that the 1911 Census is out!

I have a request if possible, one of my brick wall's, it's regarding Annie Williams (Census info below) I'm after her maiden name if possible or any information you may be able to find on her, I've been able to trace William back but I'm stuck at Annie.

1911 Census:

William Williams, Head, 51, Married 28 Years, General Labourer (Rope Works),Born: Beaumaris, N/Wales.
Annie Williams, Wife, 47, Married 28 years, Housekeeper, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Ellen Williams, Daughter, 27, Hemp Spinner (Rope Works), Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Catherine Williams, Daughter, 25, General Servant, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Robert Williams (My Great Granddad), Son, 29, Bricklayer, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
William A Williams, Son, 20, Bricklayers Assistant, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Edward Williams, Son, 18, Apprentice Fell Monger, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Maurice Williams, Son, 16, Apprentice Rope Maker, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.
Oswald Williams, Son, 6, School, Born Old Swan, Liverpool.

Thanks again for your time,

Julia

[MaryA]

Your way forward is through the birth certificate of one of the children which will give you their mother's maiden name.

Unfortunately none of them were born late enough for the indexes to give this detail so unless you can find the baptisms and if the baptisms gave her name, I would suggest the least common birth would be Oswald and so likely to pin down the correct entry.

Oswald Williams Q4 1904 West Derby 8b 644

Just to be sure you could use the checking criteria of the parents names then if it is the wrong one they would refund you part of your fee, just keeping a search fee.

[JuliaB]

Hi Mary,

Thank you for taking the time to look for this information, you are very kind. I will apply for the birth certificate.

Thanks again,

Julia

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Julia

have a look at this....

Lancs Free BMD
William Williams married Ann Quirk in 1882
St.James, West Derby (Mill Lane - a spit away from Old Swan)

1881 Free census
RG 11/3715/folio 114/ page 26

21, Hunt Street, Old Swan - all boarders with Fay family
Ellen Quirk - 18
Ann Quirk - 16
Mary Quirk - 15
Catherine Quirk - 20
Jane Quirk - 15

I hope this isn't a wild goose chase for you. If its correct you should be able to go further back to find the parents of Ann and her sisters.

Good Luck


Tony

[JuliaB]

Hi Tony,

Thank you for taking the time to look for me! sounds fantastic! I've looked for Ann and her sisters and the only one close I can find is this (do you think I'm on the right lines? as same of the ages are different to the 1881 census). I would love a second opinion.

1871 Census - Class:Rg10 / P:3850 / F:52 / Page:9

33 Sprinkfield Street,West Derby.
Maurice Quirke, 47 (1824), Head, Labourer, Ireland
Ellen Quirke, 40 (1831) , Wife, Ireland
Edward Quirke, Son, 16 (1855) , Bricklayer, Ireland
Annie Quirke, Daughter, 8 (1863), School, West Derby, Liverpool.
Mary E Quirke, Daughter, 5 (1866), School, West Derby, Liverpool.
Catherine Quirke, Daughter, 3 (1868), School, West Derby, Liverpool.

also found 1861 Census - Class:RG9 / P:2736 / f:57 / Page: 4
Springfield Street, West Derby.
Morris Quirk - Widower- 36 (1825) - Ireland.
Edward Quirk - Son - 7 (1854) - Ireland.

Thank you again,

Julia

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Julia
it looks like them to me. I think there were errors made with the ages of Catherine and Jane in 1881.
Possibly it should have read 12 and not 20 for Catherine.
For Jane I think it should have been 5 not 15 - there is a Jane Quirk b.oct-dec. 1876 Liverpool which may be her.
Another point is that, after the parents, ages are usually descending in any list for children (occasionally with boys first and then girls) - if it was 20 and 15 it would be a little unusual. Also where is Jane in 1871 if she is 15 in 1881. I can't see her anywhere.

The address is also Old Swan in 1871 which helps to partly confirm them as the same family.

I'd be happy accepting them but I have been known to jump the gun before What do our experts think?

[tonyhennessey1]

Me again..

found this in 1891 in Bootle

Class: RG12; Piece: 3000; Folio 119; Page 19

Ellen Quirk 53 b.Ireland - widow
Katie Quirk 23 b.West Derby

This would make sense if my theory is right about the age being wrong in 1881 for Catherine.

also..

If Maurice Quirk was a widow in 1861 he must have married Ellen ?between 1861 and 1863 (the birth of Ann/Annie). I can't find a marriage for them so he may have gone back to Ireland to find a new wife

We also need to find Maurice and Ellen in 1881 especially if Ellen is still alive in 1891.



Tony

[Hilary]

Hi

It looks very likely BUT personally I'd like proof so would go for a birth certificate of one of the children.

I've been had before now by not proving something.

Ed officer

[MaryA]

Me too - the family could be good but I'd want the maiden name from the certificate before accepting it as there are quite a number of William Williams marriages over the years.

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Julie

found on Free BMD - death for
QUIRK Morris age 48 W Derby 8b 344 Jan-Mar 1874.

and that's why he isn't on the 1881

That's another certificate for you to buy!

I agree with Ed. Officer, by the way - buying a birth certificate of one of the children is the only way to be certain.

I'll leave this alone now until there is something more concrete as evidence.



Tony

[JuliaB]

Hi Tony,

THANK YOU so much for the second opinion and for finding even more information, fantastic! Looking at my Family Tree Tony, it looks like you may be spot on with the information you have given going by Annie's and Williams Children's names:

Ellen (Annie's Mother and Sister Name)
Catherine (Annie's Sister and William's Mothers Name)
Robert (Williams Fathers Name)
William ( After William)
Edward (Annie's Half Brothers Name)
Maurice (Annie's Dad's Name)
Margaret (William's Grandmother)
Richard ?
Oswald ?

Thank you again for your time and hard work, this has been bugging me for years you will not believe. It's fantastic to finally add her name and others to my tree. I'm going to phone my Dad he's going to be over the moon, even more Irish blood in the family - no wonder I love Guinness so much !

Thank you Ed Officer and MaryA for your post's - I'll let you know what I find with the certificates - here's hoping!

Julia

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Julia
I'm glad you are happy with what's been found. I'm sure we have the right family.

Don't forget to keep us posted when you get confirmation from a certificate.

Good Luck


Tony