Great grandfather's iffy dates!

Post by **PJLong** » 17 Jan 2009 22:59

Evening all,
As a "newbie" to the ancestry searching I thought I was doing good.......until GGrandfather reared his difficult head! William Lindsay - born Liverpool according to census of 1901 - married Annie Parkinson at St Nicholas, Liverpool on Dec 25th 1891. Ages given were 21 and 20. Musician! The census of that same year shows Annie aged 16 living with her family in Pitt St. Can't find William anywhere but the task is made harder by the fact he's aged 26 on the 1901 census! I sent for a birth record for the William Lindsay I thought he was - born 1871 but the fathers' name is James........not John as on the marriage record. Also found William's attestation papers (don't even go there!) and in 1916 he gives his age as 40 years. Who is telling porkies and how do I get to the bottom of it all? Can't find a death record which isn't easy due to uncertain dates. Annie died in Liverpool Workhouse aged 36 in 1911. They'd had the following children that I know of: Margaret b 1892, Isabella b 1894, Annie b abt 1896, William b 1899, Phoebe b 1902 and John b 1905 (my Grandad) Any advice gratefully received as I'm stuck.

Post by **northmeols** » 17 Jan 2009 23:38

there are a few others in that time frame

Name: William Lindsay
Birth: Mar 1868 - West Derby, Lancashire

Name: William Lindsay
Birth: Mar 1867 - Liverpool (1837-1934), Lancashire

Name: William Lindsay
Birth: Mar 1877 - Liverpool (1837-1934), Lancashire

you could do a search specifying father as john giving 3 yrs either side of a year.

Post by **Tina** » 18 Jan 2009 07:45

Welcome aboard PJ!

Could we have addresses from marr cert please and any witnesses and his Dad's occupation.

Here is 1901 for the peeps
courts in Limekiln Lane, Wm 26 labourer
Annie 25, Margt 8, Isabella 6, Annie 4, Wm 1.
Father in law Wm Parkinson bn Bootle, his wife & daughter.
RG13/3425/66/3
40 in 1916 birth year 1876, 26 in 1901 birth year 1875.
Am I right in thinking there is only 1yr difference?
If so PJ you are so lucky. Some of us with Irish rellies can have up to 10yrs out.

TTFN

Tina
ps did you find them in the free 1881 census at all? Tks

Post by **PJLong** » 18 Jan 2009 09:51

Good Morning Tina, Good Morning Susan,
Wow! Speedy replies - and from each side of the world. Thanks ladies.
Yes, I have the 1901 details which are definitely them. On the 1881 I've found Annie (aged 5 years) with mother, Annie(married) and sisters Amelia and Alice Christine. Their address is 65 Raglan St Garston which ties in with fathers occupation of seaman.
Annie and William are both living in Gerard St at time of marriage in 1891. William is a "musician". Witnesses were Laura Ventre and Jem Volande. "Jem" is actually Jim Volante (relative of famous Liverpool boxer - Dom Volante) I've looked into these folk and have quite a bit of info on the Italian musical community.
I did think of the way names are passed down generations and found a William aged 8 years on the 1881 census with his widowed mother, Bella and three brothers, Andrew, Archibald and John. All born in Scotland - except William. One of William's daughters was named Isabella though the eldest was Margaret. Somewhere I'm sure I found Bella's husband named as John? This William would have been born 1873 ish making him 18 at marriage. I can't find a suitable birth entry for 1873 though! The said Bella (Isabella) died in 1893 aged 62. Suggestions for my next move very welcome! Many thanks again Susan and Tina. Kindest regards, Pauline.

Post by **PJLong** » 18 Jan 2009 09:56

Ooop, forgot Williams fathers occupation on marriage certificate....."joiner". Could someone enlighten me as to what type of joiner he could be. I'd presumed carpenter but am now wondering about someone who made ships funiture? Annies fathers occupation is "mariner".

Post by **Dominex** » 18 Jan 2009 10:57

Hiya,

Was wondering if this could've been him on the 1881, because of the names.

Name: Bella Lindsay widow
40
Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
born: Scotland

Street address: 3 House 13 Court Bolton St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)

Occupation: Charwoman
Bella Lindsay 40
Andrew Lindsay 20
Archibald Lindsay 14
John Lindsay 18
William Lindsay 8

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3628; Folio: 99; Page: 41; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341868.

This is them on the 1871, father's name is John, but says he's a pattern maker

Name: John Lindsay
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Isabella

Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Liverpool

Isabella Lindsay 32
Margaret Lindsay 13
Andrew Lindsay 11
John Lindsay 8
James Anges Lindsay 6
Archibald Nelson Lindsay 3

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3790; Folio: 140; Page: 50; GSU roll: 841897.

Sue

Post by **Dominex** » 18 Jan 2009 11:04

Bella Linsey on the 1891 lodging RG12; Piece: 2919; Folio 7; Page 8; GSU roll: 6098029

Sue

Post by **PJLong** » 18 Jan 2009 11:06

Hi Sue,
Yes, have looked at those entries but still waiting to be convinced! I'm also having a mooch through "Scotlandspeople" as I discovered the whole line of my Nan's family right back to 1851 there - then the trail went cold with the birthplace "Sligo". Unless I can pursuade hubby a trip to the Emerald Isle is a good idea.......! If only GGrandfather had a weird and wonderful name! I shall persevere with help from kind folk such as yourself. Cheers, Pauline.

Post by **Tina** » 18 Jan 2009 11:13

Hi PJ
Guess where my hubbie was born?
68 Raglan St Garston 1944..

Tina

Post by **PJLong** » 18 Jan 2009 11:22

Tina....Oh....My....God! Would you believe that! I've looked on all kinds of old maps and Google earth but can't locate Raglan Street. What a small world we really do live in eh? I'm presuming it would be close to the docks as William Parkinson was a seaman. Think I've also found him on board The Glengaber as a steward in 1873! Recently bought a superb book " Liverpool - a Peoples History by Peter Aughton. Absolutely enthralling stuff. Getting ready for hubbys return tonight - from Ethiopia! He does 8 on 2 off hence the amount of time I spend poring over old records etc!!!!

Post by **Dominex** » 18 Jan 2009 11:34

Sorry Pauline,

I missed where you said you had seen them. Shouldn't have been trying to eat my breakfast at the same time as reading

My hubby's in Bahrain atm, s keep windowing out to skype to see if he's on

Sue

Post by **PJLong** » 18 Jan 2009 15:22

Hi Sue,
Between plucking eyebrows, raiding wardrobe and fighting to get rollers in....I had a quick peek at that 1891 census address for Bella Linsey - not yet been down the different spelling road! Aha, Bolton Street is just too close to where William was living, in fact it was just off Limekiln Lane. Now known as Lime Street I believe. So she could well be the Bella I imagine as Williams mother. Lordy, there's a lot to take in isn't there! Shall be twittering away at hubby all night over this Lindsay saga! Watch this space!

Post by **Tina** » 19 Jan 2009 08:56

Hi PJ & Suedom
I'll give you time to twitter with your hubbies...
Will try and find old map for you PJ.
Raglan was off Window Lane, Banks Rd end. Stone's throw from St Michael's Church of which I have a calendar every year, fund raiser, from my cuz Tommy.

Off topic, you gals have it easy these days worrying about O.H
Mine, 35yrs ago, once landed in Kota Kinabalu in a DC3, door tied on with rope, natives holding bamboo lights for the runway. Thank gawd the pilot was a Vietnam Vet...then again over Burma, "Karen" rebels shooting at the chopper. Cyclone in the north west, news on tv, all except 3 men rescued from oil rig...guess who was one of the 3 ??
It's no wonder I went grey early!!
He was always keeping up to date with safety & rescue until he got to 50yrs old. In the simulated chopper crash which he had done for donkeys, he panicked....Got a shore job...
Tks for listening

Tina oxo

Post by **PJLong** » 19 Jan 2009 22:12

Hi all,
Well.......guess what I did today? The 1911 census! £6.95 for 60 credits which I soon spent. Got a lovely original of 1 Dawson Place where William Lindsay and his family were happily ensconced. Missus - Annie - is a hawker (fruit) and at last I have the full name of Grandads' brother who went off to live in the warmer climate of Australia - keep your eyes open Tina! William James Lindsay and his wife Marion left UK in the sixties but I don't have a darn clue of their destination down under. Also discovered that 8 children had been born to William and Annie but only 6 had survived. I'm a very happy bunny tonight!

Post by **Tina** » 20 Jan 2009 09:57

Hi PJ
Very pleased about your census finds...
Happy for you indeed.
findmypast shipping lists stops at 1960 boo hoo...
Not to worry someone downunder may find them...

Tina

Post by **PJLong** » 20 Jan 2009 10:24

Morning Tina,
Not really thought of hunting down any possible "rellies" in Oz - wouldn't know where to start! (input from anyone welcome!) Seeing as the weather here is SO unfriendly outside, I may put on my serious head and give it a go.
Take it your hubby is an oil man?

Post by **Tina** » 20 Jan 2009 10:48

Hi PJ
No hubby wasn't an oilman he was/still is a painter...sandblaster etc.
Thanks for asking.

Tina
will have an Oz squizz...

Post by **Morag Cameron** » 29 May 2009 22:34

PJLong wrote:Hi all,
Well.......guess what I did today? The 1911 census! £6.95 for 60 credits which I soon spent. Got a lovely original of 1 Dawson Place where William Lindsay and his family were happily ensconced. Missus - Annie - is a hawker (fruit) and at last I have the full name of Grandads' brother who went off to live in the warmer climate of Australia - keep your eyes open Tina! William James Lindsay and his wife Marion left UK in the sixties but I don't have a darn clue of their destination down under. Also discovered that 8 children had been born to William and Annie but only 6 had survived. I'm a very happy bunny tonight!

Hi PJ,

I spotted your Lindsay saga via Google recently. I am the great-granddaughter of Margaret Lindsay, daughter of John. You've seen her in the 1871 census in Liverpool, but at some point (don't know the how or where) she met and married my grandfather William Drummond Cameron. and lived in Glasgow (died fairly young in 1895). I knew she was brought up in Liverpool. In 1861 Scotland census John and Isabella were living with her mother (Margaret Jackson) at 143 Drygate St They were married on 31 December 1857 in Glasgow (from ScotlandsPeople). Isabella's father was John Jackson born Ireland. John's parents were Andrew and Margaret (maiden name Angus - hence middle name of one of John's sons) Andrew was a grocer and his father was another Andrew (stonemason) born in Loudoun, Ayrshire. Margaret Angus was from Kilmarnock and daughter of James Angus , another stonemason (all this from Scotlands People by dint of much searching!!)
I haven't found John or Bella's birth or death records yet, so any info you may have or on their descendants would be gratefully received = and I can give you a bit more detail on my line if you want it.

Morag

Post by **MaryA** » 30 May 2009 09:13

Welcome to the forum Morag. I'm glad you have made this connection with Pauline and hope you will be able to take your researches further together.

Post by **Morag Cameron** » 31 May 2009 09:34

Hi PJ,

Just to clarify - John Lindsay's father was Andrew a Grocer and Provision merchant (1841 Scotland census- spelling Linsay in Ancestry transcription) and this is confirmed by John and Isabella's marriage ceritifcate Scotlandspeople - Glasgow City 31 Dec 1857). Andrew Lindsay was married to Margaret Angus (her brother James is living with them in 1841 census). John is an apprentice joiner in 1841 and joiner on marriage certificate. Andrew Lindsay died 21 June 1869 - son of Andrew Lindsay (mason) and Margaret nee Boyd. Margaret Angus died 24 November 1880 at 156 Gallowgate - and that is the address where Margaret Lindsay (John's daughter)and William Drummond Cameron were married.
John Jackson was born Ireland - no further with him yet. 1861 Scotland census has John and Isabella living with Margaret Jackson obviously widowed(spelling Lindsey for John, Lindley for Isabella in the Ancestry transcription).

Pattern maker I think makes the moulds for tools - and I think they used to be made of wood (we had a friend who was a Pattern Maker) so a joiner could do that job.

Hoping to hear from you soon - have got John and Bella's birth dates now etc.

Morag

Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Great grandfather's iffy dates!

Great grandfather's iffy dates!

GGrandfathers iffy dates.

John Lindsay - Joiner or pattern maker

Grandfather's iffy dates