1867 Pte James Ablett 1/8th Liverpool Regiment

[Mark Abbott]

I am trying (without any success) to locate this chap on the 1901 and 1911 Census.

I know that he was born in 1896/97 and he joined the 1/8th Liverpool Regiment on 24 August 1913. At the time of enlistment he lived at 78 Uxbridge Street, Liverpool and worked for W Cransford & Sons in Binns Road Liverpool.

He landed in France with his battalion on 3 May 1915. He became aprisoner of war on 8 August 1916 along with many other men of his battalion during the failed attack on Guillemont by the 55th West Lancashire Division.

The only possible candidate I have found lived at 44 Woodside Street with his mother Georgina and sisters Elizabeth and Annie. I think Georgina worked in/ran a butchers. She is described as "wife", so I assume that her husband was elsewhere on the day the census was compiled.

Any help to fill in the blanks would be welcome.

Mark

[daggers]

I think your reference to the employer takes the biscuit and should be "Crawford" !
[Sorry!]
D

[Mark Abbott]

Richard,

Crumbs! That's a cracker!!

New glasses me thinks!

Mark

[Hilary]

Hi

James Ablett birth registration West Derby district June 1896. He appears born 1897 living West Derby district on 1911 census. In the same household is Georgina and William Ablett. If you want to see the actual entry you'll have to pay!!

William C Ablett married Georgina Williams Everton St Emmanuel 1887

The census entry you found seems to right as there is no other James Ablett born at this time.

Ed Officer

[MaryA]

I think Georgina's husband is

William C Ablett married Georgina Williams Everton, Emmanuel 1887

1901 census
25 Greenleaf Street, Toxteth Park
All born Liverpool
Thomas Ablett Head M 56 Iron Dresser?
Frances Wife M 60
William Son Married 34 Baker (Bread Maker)
James son single 21 Iron Turner
RG13; Piece: 3439; Folio: 96; Page: 22

Notice that William is married.

There are a lot more members of the household in 1911, but your James is certainly there, birthdate 1897.
RD455 SD9 ED42 SN24

[MaryA]

Snap Ed Officer!

[jan44]

Hi Mark,

I take it you have found James's army records on ancestry? I noticed that his father William George Ablett is listed as next of Kin.

If it is James and his mum on the 1901.

I found this marriage, which may be James's parents but William is william C, but be a mis-transcription.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1887
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ABLETT William C WILLIAMS Georgina Everton, Emmanuel Liverpool 2100WD/1/467

Jan

[dickiesam]

Hello Mark,
To help things along... and add a filling to the biscuit )!

James Ablett was born in the Jun qtr of 1896 - GRO Index reference = West Derby - 8b - 285. And, Georgina Williams married William Charles Ablett in West Derby - Dec qtr 1887 - 8b - 567.

Here's the family in the 1891 census:
ABLETT, William E - Head - bn abt 1867 - Bread Maker - bn Edge Hill, Lancashire.
ABLETT, Georgina - Wife -bn abt 1871 - bn Toxteth Park, Lancashire.
ABLETT, William H - Son - bn 1890 - bn Toxteth Park, Lancashire.
ABLETT, Emma E - Dtr - bn 1891 - bn Toxteth Park, Lancashire.
Address: 9 Cullen Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.

RG number: RG12, Piece: 2938, Folio: 90. Page: 10.

With regard to his absence from the family home in the 1901, I found a William Ablett, baker, born 1867 here!

ABLETT, Thomas - Head - Married - bn abt 1845 - Iron Driller - bn Liverpool, Lancashire.
ABLETT, Frances - Wife - Married - bn abt 1841 - bn Liverpool, Lancashire.
ABLETT, William - Son - Married - bn abt 1867 - Baker - bn Liverpool, Lancashire.
ABLETT, James - Son - Single - bn 1880 - Iron Turner - bn Liverpool,
Lancashire.
Address: 25, Greenleaf Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire.

RG number: RG13, Piece: 3439, Folio: 96, Page: 22.

Bit of a coincidence? Same name, nearly same year of birth and same trade? Has William gone back to Mum and Dad? Although to be fair, there are 2 William Abletts born in Lancs between 1860 and 1870, and 1 of them is William C.

Births Dec qtr 1863 - ABLETT - William - W Derby - 8b - 301.
Births Jun qtr 1866 -ABLETT - William C - W. Derby - 8b - 506.

And there's another James Ablett for you! A 'couple of years' older.
Good luck,
Dickiesam

PS: The 1901 census transcription on Findmypast shows the William living at Greenleaf Street as 'single'. I have sent a transcription error notification to them.

[jan44]

Oh, don't know what happened there, when I posted my reply there were no other replies to this post!

Hmm, seems like we are on the right track anyway hahaha.

Jan

[MaryA]

Not sure about it at all IF James father is really William George, since both his marriage AND 1911 appear to show the father as William Charles.

[jan44]

I think it is a mistake on the army papers, it lists William George Ablett as living at 78 Uxbridge Street, I looked at the 1914 directory and at 78 Uxbridge Street is William C Ablett - Baker.

Jan

[Mark Abbott]

A genuine thank you to all who have taken the trouble to post a reply.

The generosity of board members who so freely give of their time and expertise is a credit to all.

The Census evidence does point to an error in the Army records as the father is clearly William C Ablett.

Interestingly, most of the 1/8th King's were taken prisoner on the 8th August 1916 and if anyone is interested, I'll post a report on the action.

Again, my sincere thanks to all.

Mark

[Mark Abbott]

I have recieved help on James from a family member.

His grandson is Elvis Costello, the singer/songwriter!

William Charles was a master baker and Georgina worked as an assistant in the bakers shop.
James married Ada Mutch on 22nd May 1926 at St. Nathaniel's, Toxteth Park, Liverpool. They had three children, a girl born 1927, a son born 1931 and their youngest son, born 1933, they were all born in the Toxteth Park district.

Ada died in 1949 and James subsequently married Alice Whitely in 1951. There were no children to this marriage. James died in 1968.

Regards

Mark

[MaryA]

This forum often seems to hobnob with the famous!

[jan44]

Wow,

Great stuff, I wonder where Elvis Costello got his inspiration from for "Oliver's Army"?

That is great news Mark.

Jan

[Mark Abbott]

James Ablett and it would appear, most of his family, worked for Crawfords Biscuits in Binns Road.

After WW1, many companies commissioned a "Roll of Honour". These rolls were often in the form of a book and I was wondering if anyone knows if Crawfords compiled one? Does anyone know if the is/was a memorial at the Binns Road factory?

Regards

Mark

[daggers]

Yes!
The UK National Inventory of War memorials has them listed under 'United Biscuits', but traced by entering 'Crawfords'.
Here is part of the entry:
UNITED BISCUITS FACTORY
BINNS RD
LIVERPOOL
MERSEYSIDE
ENGLAND

Type: BOARD/PLAQUE/TABLET
OS Map Ref: SD 340 170
Inscription

1914-1918/IN MEMORY OF/(NAMES)
Components
Component Material(s) Height Width Depth Condition
FRAME STONE GOOD
PLAQUE METAL GOOD
Physical Description

METAL PLAQUE IN STONE FRAME
Daggers

[Mark Abbott]

Richard,

Thank you for that.

I have contacted United Biscuits to see If I can go to the factory and photograph the memorial. I will let you know how I get on!

Regards

Mark

[MaryA]

Fingers crossed they agree, can't really see any reason why not.

We look forward to seeing your photograph when you have it.

[BoweBelle61]

Elvis Costello's hit "Oliver's Army" was inspired by his Grandfather Patrick McManus's experiences in WW1 and the issue of the "Kings Shilling"
I am a cousin of Declan McManus on the McManus side of his family.