Anyone going to Lancs Record Office?

Post by **Ronda** » 03 May 2009 02:06

If anyone is going to the Lancashire Record Office in Preston any time I would be grateful for a marriage look-up. I am looking for information from the marriage of John Geddes and Ann (“Annie” / “Nancy”) Kerr, which might also be spelled Carr. Their registration was in the 4th qtr of 1858 (Oct-Nov-Dec) Lancaster district Vol 83 Page 813.

The entry in the LancsBMD said "Lancaster Register Office or Registrar Attended" so this could very well be a non-conformist church wedding and the most likely ones I’ve narrowed it down to are:

PRESTON, Saul St – Primitive Methodist
M 1846-1886, 1907-1943 Orig reg MPR 36/1/1, MMR 32/7-11

LANCASTER, St Nicholas St – Presbyterian/Unitarian
M 1845-1860, 1877-1909 Orig reg ULA 2/1-2

PRESTON, Church St - Unitarian
M 1842-1937 Orig reg UPR 1-3

John Geddes b ca 1836 is from Liverpool and I am having difficulty moving beyond him without knowing his occupation, a father’s name, occupation or any other relevant information (similarly for Ann, b ca 1832/3, from Carlisle, Cumberland).

In time, as money allows, I plan to order their marriage certificate for my personal files but, in the meantime, if anyone going in person has time to peek at this marriage and copy the info on my behalf I would be greatly appreciative for the “jump start”!

Thanks in advance,
Ronda

(in Ontario, Canada)

Post by **Hilary** » 03 May 2009 18:53

Hi Ronda

If the entry says LANCASTER it will not be at either of the two Preston chiurches. For them it would say PRESTON.

Ed Offiver

Post by **CaroleW** » 03 May 2009 19:07

Hi

I agree

They were living in Ulverston in 1861, Annie/Nancy was from Carlisle and their first child was b Lancaster so it is far more likely that they married in that area rather than Preston

Post by **MaryA** » 03 May 2009 20:02

Let's hope that narrows it down even more, although Ronda doesn't think the marriage would be RC, there's always that possibility.

Post by **Ronda** » 04 May 2009 00:51

Hi Ed and Carole (and Hi again Mary! <grin>),

from the Lancashire BMD site:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1858
Surname // Forename(s) // Surname // Forename(s) // Church / Register Office // Registers At // Reference
GEDDES // John // KERR // Annie // Lancaster // Register Office or Registrar Attended // Preston // LANC/3/178

So, registers at Preston right? Or am I reading this wrong?

Ronda

Post by **northmeols** » 04 May 2009 02:06

1881 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 45 abt 1836
Spouse's name: Ann
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Rusholme
Street address: 19 Church Road
Occupation: Salesman (Unemployed)
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 45
Ann Geddes 47
Isabel Geddes 20
Fanny Geddes 19
Bessie Geddes 16
Kate Geddes 15
Mary J. Geddes 13
Jessie Geddes 9
Florence Geddes 8
Alexander Geddes 6
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3912; Folio: 85; Page: 33; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341934.

1871 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 35 abt 1836
Spouse's name: Annie
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Rusholme
Street address:8 stockport rd
Occupation: wharehouseman
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 35
Annie Geddes 37
Isabel Geddes 10
Fanny Geddes 9
Bessie Geddes 6
Kate Geddes 4
Mary Jane Geddes 3
Clara Geddes 1
Agness Way 21
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3986; Folio: 61; Page: 2; GSU roll: 846093.

1861 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 25 abt 1836
Spouse's name: Nancy
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Town: Ulverston
Street address:Burlington st
Occupation:upholsterer
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 25
Nancy Geddes 27
Isabel M Geddes 16 Mo
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3167; Folio: 119; Page: 27; GSU roll: 543090.

1851 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Nanny
Where born: Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Lancaster
Street address: 3 pointer st
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 42 railway clerk
Nanny Geddes 43
John Geddes 15 upholsterer
Sarah Jane Geddes 12
Richard L Geddes 10
Frances Geddes 7
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2272; Folio: 261; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87299.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ British Isles
JOHN GEDDIS
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 20 JAN 1836 Saint Mathews, Douglas, Isle Of Man, England
Parents:
Father: JOHN GEDDIS Mother: NANNY STUBBS
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date

Post by **Ronda** » 04 May 2009 02:36

Whoa Susan! I could hug you and kiss you! LOL I had the later census entries just not the earlier ones that would give John's parents and you know, my gt grandmother (Clara Geddes Wilson, Mary Jane Geddes' daughter) would talk about someone who was born at Isle of Mann but I was just a child back then and paid next to no attention regarding who, etc. I only remember the cousins and I joking about Islands of Men (as kids do) LOL. Thank you SO SO SO SO much... I DO believe you've snagged him and, in the process, brought to light the mystery in an old memory too!

If you ever need a lookup in Southwestern Ontario, Canada do let me know so I can reciprocate!

Cheers, Ronda

Post by **northmeols** » 04 May 2009 02:50

Household:1881 census

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John GEDDES Head W Male 71 Carlisle, Cumberland, England Railway Platelayer
Robert G. GEDDES Son U Male 28 Darlington, Durham, England Printer Compositor
Source Information:
Dwelling 16 Station Terrace
Census Place Darlington, Durham, England
Family History Library Film 1342175
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4884 / 79
Page Number 38

possibly him one in 1808 also for whitehaven
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™
JOHN GADDES Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 NOV 1812 Saint Cuthbert, Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Parents:
Father: WM. GADDES Mother: MARY GREEVES
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™
JOHN GADDIAS
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 19 JUN 1808 James Street-Scotch Presbyterian, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Parents:
Father: ROBERT GADDIAS Mother: JANE
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™
JOHN GEDDES
Marriages:
Spouse: NANNY STUBBS
Marriage: 22 JUN 1833 Saint James, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

1891 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 81 abt 1810
Relation: Father
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Town: Darlington
Household Members: Name Age
William Geddes 39
Hannah Geddes 39
John H Geddes 16
Walter Geddes 11
Robert H Geddes 8
Albert E Geddes 6
John Geddes 81
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4040; Folio 53; Page 5; GSU roll: 6099150.

1851 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 42 abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Nanny
Where born: Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Town: Lancaster
Street address:3 pointer place
Occupation:railway clerk
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 42
Nanny Geddes 43
John Geddes 15
Sarah Jane Geddes 12
Richard L Geddes 10
Frances Geddes 7
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2272; Folio: 261; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87299.

1861 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 52 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Spouse's name: Nanny
Where born: Whithorn, Cumberland, England
Town: Lancaster
Street address:8 morton st
Occupation:railway clerk
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 52
Nanny Geddes 53
Sarah Jane Geddes 22
Frances Geddes 17
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3158; Folio: 99; Page: 2; GSU roll: 543088.

1871 England Census
Name: John Geddes
Age: 62 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Where born: Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
Town: Lancaster
Street address: 1 ulleswater st
Occupation:railway clerk
Household Members: Name Age
John Geddes 62
Sarah J Geddes 32
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4231; Folio: 37; Page: 7; GSU roll: 846965.

Post by **northmeols** » 04 May 2009 03:12

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1867
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geddes Nanny 60 Lancaster 8e 488

Deaths Jun 1893
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geddes John 83 Darlington 10a 16

Post by **Ronda** » 04 May 2009 03:32

You are rocking Susan! I have so much to absorb here.

One thing I noticed was that the son Robert G. GEDDES age 28 with John GEDDES age 71 in Darlington, Durham in the 1881 census is that he should be in the 1861 household as an 8 yr old (or thereabouts) and he's not... curious...

Thanks for all your help!

(sitting here feeling like Christmas! LOL)

Ronda
(I see the forum says who's logged in... sorry I'm slow in reply... I usually open other tabs and search around the internet at the same time. If I get distracted... well, you know how genealogy folk are!

Post by **northmeols** » 04 May 2009 03:34

will check it out

Post by **northmeols** » 04 May 2009 03:45

OK did a quick check on 1861 found robert George age 9 with father john born carlisle 1810 and mother Ann born yorkshire. so that is not your John but could be a cousin. so file info away. 2 geddes from carlisle area named john. has to be a family connection somewhere.

Post by **Ronda** » 04 May 2009 04:07

Yes, they probably are. Similarly, I went to IGI and copied down the other GEDDES at Isle of Man. There were only about 14 total for marriages and christenings and most were within 20 yrs. Another brother for John in Thomas GEDDES c Apr 1834 Saint Mathews, Douglas, Isle Of Man, England s/o John GEDDES / Nanny STUBBS. Alexander Scott GEDDES married a Mrs. Jane ALLEYNE there in 1829 and c two daughters there in the early 30s... I suspect he may show up to be a brother of the John (b abt 1809)...

I have picked up some christening dates on John's (b 1836) siblings in Cumberland too.

Ronda

Post by **MaryA** » 04 May 2009 08:37

Well done Susan, some very logical thinking has produced a great result.

Post by **Hilary** » 04 May 2009 10:06

Hi

You still need to get the marriage which as it will give the father's names will prove that all the wonderful detective work is correct.

On lancashirebmd where it says where the registers are held the statement PRESTON refers to the fact that the registers are now stored at a register office in Preston and this is where you could send for copies of the certificate or alternatively you could send to the GRO.

There are some non conformist registers in the Lancashire Record Office which is also in Preston but they are different offices.

You also need to bear in mind that the Lancaster Registration district covered a large area and therefore a great many non conformist churches.

Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Sub-districts : Arkholme; Caton; Ellel; Heaton; Lancaster; Morecambe; Tunstall; Warton; Wray.
GRO volumes : XXI (1837-51); 8e (1852-1946); 10C (1946-74).

Township or Civil Parish
County
From
To
Notes

Aldcliffe
LAN
1837
1935
after 1935 see Lancaster

Arkholme-with-Cawood
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Ashton with Stodday
LAN
1837
1974

Bolton-le-Sands
LAN
1837
1974

Borwick
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Bulk
LAN
1837
1900
after 1900 see Lancaster; Quernmore

Burrow-with-Burrow
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Cantsfield
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Carnforth
LAN
1837
1974

Caton-with-Littledale
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Claughton
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Cockerham
LAN
1837
1974

Cockersand Abbey
LAN
1837
1935
after 1935 see Thurnham

Ellel
LAN
1837
1974

Farleton
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Gressingham
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Halton-with-Aughton
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Heaton-with-Oxcliffe
LAN
1837
1974

Heysham
LAN
1837
1928
after 1928 see Morecambe & Heysham

Hornby
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Ireby
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Lancaster
LAN
1837
1974

Leck
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Melling-with-Wrayton
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Middleton
LAN
1837
1974

Morecambe
LAN
1924
1928
before 1924 see Poulton Barre & Torrisholme / after 1928 see Morecambe & Heysham

Morecambe & Heysham
LAN
1928
1974
before 1928 see Morecambe; Heysham

Nether Kellet
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Over Kellet
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Over Wyresdale
LAN
1837
1974

Overton
LAN
1837
1974

Poulton Barre & Torrisholme
LAN
1837
1924
after 1924 see Morecambe

Priest Hutton
LAN
1837
1974

Quernmore
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Roeburndale
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Scotforth
LAN
1837
1974

Silverdale
LAN
1837
1974

Skerton
LAN
1837
1900
after 1900 see Lancaster; Halton-with-Aughton; Heaton-with-Oxcliffe; Slyne-with-Hest

Slyne-with-Hest
LAN
1837
1974

Tatham
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Thurnham
LAN
1837
1974

Tunstall
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Warton
LAN
1935
1974
before 1935 see Warton with Lindeth

Warton with Lindeth
LAN
1837
1935
after 1935 see Warton; Silverdale

Wennington
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Whittington
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Wray-with-Botton
LAN
1837
1869
transferred to Lunesdale district on 1.7.1869
Yealand Conyers
LAN
1837
1974

Yealand Redmayne
LAN
1837
1974

I'd send for the marriage certificate which would prove that everything that has been found is correct.

Ed officer

Post by **Ronda** » 04 May 2009 14:15

Hi, Thank you to ALL of you for your generous assistance and input!

I must admit that, while I'm well versed in the geography and proximity of locations in the Cotswolds (even Bristol) from researching other family lines ... Liverpool, Manchester and all of Cumberland are very foreign territory to me and, to compound things, heavily populated areas as well! However, my maps do show me a considerable distance between Lancashire and Cumberland locations so I understand we are making a geographic 'leap'

Yes, I will be ordering the certificate to validate everything for sure just as soon as my tax return money comes in (about a month from now) and I have a bit of extra coin to use..

... maybe even pay for a membership so I can stay on here and kibbutz with everyone

You have all been wonderful! (especially considering this is in the Liverpool section of the forum and it turns out Liverpool has had very little to do with my particular John GEDDES despite his claims!

Ronda