War Diaries-5th Battalian South Lancs Regiment.(Territorial)

Post by **m.downey** » 30 Jan 2009 22:11

Mark,

Do you have access to the war diaries for 5th Battalian of South Lancs Regiment.(Territorial) I understand the 5th was sub divided in 1914 and the whole of the Territorial Arm renumbered in 1917.
I have made enquiries before on this forum for info on my grandfather, Henry McCormick from St.Helens ...we have his medal card but no luck with service or pension records.Am still trying to find out if/where he served overseas.
Anecdotal stories claim he served in Northern Ireland sometime during/after WW1.

Thanks

md

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 02 Feb 2009 07:57

md

If your grandfather was 1938/240320, he went overseas after 1915 ans he has no entitlement to the 1914-15 star.

For an overview of the 55th Division's war, I would recommend you obtain a copy of the Divisional History by Rev Coop. It is available quite widely and should be available in the St Helens library.

I seem to recall that the reference libray has a copy of the South Lancs history which will give more details. I do not have a copy of the War Diary, but would suggest you join the Great War Forum as I have no doubt someone on there will.

Best wishes.

Mark

Post by **m.downey** » 02 Feb 2009 08:06

Many thanks Mark, will check out the library asap (or when it stops snowing!!!)
Thanks again
md

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 03 Feb 2009 10:04

A pleasure.

Also check the local papers. They both report on the 5th South Lancs.

Really, this thread should be moved to "St Helens" as the 5th mainly recruited from the town.

Mark

Post by **m.downey** » 07 Feb 2009 20:54

Have just tonight been sent a photograph of who could be my grandfather..found in the home of a relative...how do I post a photograph on the site,,,am hoping that someone will recognise the cap badge so that I confirm the regiment.
Thanks
md

Post by **MaryA** » 07 Feb 2009 21:52

Instructions here
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=6279

Post by **m.downey** » 07 Feb 2009 22:12

Thanks Mary, hope this works.....can anyone identify the cap badge/uniform of this ???WW1 soldier.

md

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 13 Feb 2009 08:31

It certainly looks like an approximation of the South Lancs capbadge; the Prince of Wales feathers are clearly visable. I suspect that the photo has been "enhanced" at some stage and the finer detail has been lost.

Have you managed to obtain a copy of the 55th Division history?

Post by **m.downey** » 13 Feb 2009 17:02

Hi Mark

Good news that you think it could be a military cap badge and the Prince of Wales feathers is a good connection with the SW Lancs Regiment...some of the replies I've had (from Liverpool forum) suggested that the uniform could be a non military i.e St. Johns ambulace. The unusual front piece of the uniform above the pockets has also been commented on...Agree that the photo has been touched up which has reduced the finer detail. Am thinking now that this photo can be not be my grandfather, this person is very young and my grandfather would be 34 years old in 1914...someone in the family but not Henry McCormick.

I visited St. Helens Archive library on Wednesday and found a book 'The South Lancs Regiment 1914 -1934' by Captain H.Whalley Kelly. The book gave details of where and when the different batalions were during the WW1.

The Rev Coop book is listed in the index but the book couldn't be found in the library...I have registered with the Long Long Trail forum and hope maybe someone can direct me to the war diaries for the 2nd/5th battalion which is where I think my grandfather was (according to his service numbers)

Information up to now 2/5th formed in St. Helens in 1914/
8/2/1915 moved to Ashford Kent and atached to 172nd Brigade in 57th (2nd West Lancs)
June 1916 Mytchett (Aldershot) and then to Blackdown.
1917 went to France as part of the 57th (2nd West Lancs Division)
20/2/17 landed in Boulogne
25/2/1918 disbanded at Steenwerck in France.

Would hope that the diaries would show where he went to from Bologne and what he was doing in UK prior to going to France. Family lore says he served some time in Northern Ireland..

I understand that Warrington Regimental Museum has a roll call of SW Lancs soldiers who served during WW1, maybe that would give me more information?

regards

md

Post by **Hilary** » 13 Feb 2009 17:10

Hello

The National Archives web site has some war diaries on line. Maybe they have the ones you want.

Education Officer

Post by **m.downey** » 13 Feb 2009 17:21

Thanks, will have a look on their site...
best wishes
Md

Post by **Ken Lees** » 24 Mar 2009 16:28

m.downey wrote:
... maybe someone can direct me to the war diaries for the 2nd/5th battalion which is where I think my grandfather was (according to his service numbers)

MD,

Why do you think he was in the 2/5th and not the 1/5th Battalion? You can't tell from his number as they didn't differentiate between the 1st and 2nd line battalions when the numbers were issued.

All you can say for sure from his service number is that at the time of the 1917 re-numbering, he was a member of the 5th Battalion.

He may have gone overseas with the 2/5th in 1917 but could equally have been part of a reinforcement draft to the 1/5th in 1916 or 1917.

Ken

Post by **m.downey** » 24 Mar 2009 21:25

Ken,
Not sure why other than the 2/5th was formed in St. Helens in 1914 and 1st/5th was in Warrington...how would I find out definitely without his service or pension records (which are not available)?
Thanks
md

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 26 Mar 2009 10:01

The 5th South Lancs were recruited in St Helens and the 4th in Warrington.

It may be worth your while to visit Warrington Library; they have several "scrapbooks" which contain hundreds of cuttings from local newspapers which mention local men in the war.

The 5th South Lancashire Drill Hall in St Helens.

Mark

Post by **m.downey** » 26 Mar 2009 17:42

Thanks for the tip about Warrington library, will make the trip there to check out the scrapbooks......what about the Regimental Museum in Warrington, is that worth a visit do you think?
The photo is of a place I knew as Volunteer Hall...its in a street at the side of Lowe House Church..in recent years it had a naval connection, I think it was a seamans club but very recently has been turned into a bar! the cut our area above the front door has an inscription which gave details of its original use - thats now been covered up and I think the name of bar put there....
Thanks for the Warrington library information and of course the photograph.
md

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 27 Mar 2009 07:40

I used to be a regular visitor to the South Lancs museum in the days when it was run by Major Kenny and his assistant Danny. Both gentlemen were former members of the regiment and were delighted to show a (then) youngster everything the museum had by way of written and photographic records; it was wonderful!

I understand that everything has now unfortunately been moved to Fulwood Barracks in Preston although you can gain access.

Good luck with the research.

Mark

Post by **m.downey** » 27 Mar 2009 19:08

Thanks for all your help, will let you know if I'm successful with the library etc.
Best wishes
Md

Post by **m.downey** » 20 Apr 2009 20:13

Here is a photo taken this weekend on a visit St. Georges Memorial Church, Ypres. Might be of interest to anyone with a South Lancs Connection. The church is a memorial to British Servicemen and women, is wonderfully kept and maintained and well worth a visit if you are in the area.

Post by **Brenda** » 07 Oct 2009 16:23

Have only just seen this posting. YOu probably have all the info you want by now, but if not I shall post details sent to me by Fulwood. The Bn did go to Ireland - Dublin.

member 6643

Post by **m.downey** » 08 Oct 2009 08:32

Would be very grateful for any information you have...
still know very little about Prince of Wales Volunteers in WW1
many thanks
md

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