Court Dwellings ~ Brunswick View

Post by **ZED** » 21 Mar 2009 14:26

Hi All ~

According to the 1851 census, my grx4 grandparents ... John & Fanny Irving ... lived in court dwellings (no.4 court) at Brunswick View in the Parish of West Derby. I imagine this would have been somewhere in the vicinity of Brunswick Dock, but please can anyone tell me the exact whereabouts of this location (and perhaps what exists on the site now?)

Cheers!

Post by **PJLong** » 21 Mar 2009 14:58

Hi ZED, Welcome!
Had a quick look on an old map I have but can't spot a Brunswick View....however....had a mooch for the family on the 1841 census and found John (coachman) with missus and family in Myers Place which is recorded following Brunswick View.....which comes after Brunswick Road. According to this old map I have Brunswick Road runs between Islington and West Derby Road. Maybe this can help you out! I'm sure some of the super sleuths on the forum will have an exact location for you - and more!!! Good Luck. Pauline.

Post by **Tina** » 22 Mar 2009 09:11

Hi Zed
Please share with us your lovely avatar.
Your John & Fanny were in Gregson St in 1861, my Auntie Dolly had a sweet/lemonade shop there when I was a little girl (1950) Dad used to leave me with her while he went to Goodison.
Your J & F have a nurse child listed as Wm J Haintton 2yrs, can't transcribe his name sorry.
Margaret at home aged 25yrs.
I've looked in my directories, no luck with Brunswick View.

Warmies
Tina
Edited, typo, Gregson St correct

Post by **ZED** » 22 Mar 2009 11:48

Hi Pauline ~
Many thanks! You're absolutely correct re: the 1841 census! John was a coachman and wife Fanny was a midwife. Aha ... so their address is 'Myers Place' ... I couldn't make it out (no. 3 I belive?) They must have moved from there to the dreadful Court Dwellings by the time of the 1851 census.

I have copies of Kirkdale Sessions papers which show that by 1855 the family were in receipt of Poor Relief. They had moved to Everton from Prestwich and the Overseers of the Poor at Everton made an attempt to have them moved back to Prestwich. However, this attempt was unsuccessful due to John's poor health (not stated what the problem was, but apparently it was bad enough for him to be unable to work).

Bestest,
Paula.

Post by **ZED** » 22 Mar 2009 12:01

Hi Tina ~

Many thanks for the 1861 census info. I will go-see whether Robson St. is still there! Daughter Margaret is the person I am descended from ... she, like her mother, was a midwife.

Margaret (hubby Alfred McQuinn & children) lived in Gregson Street ... I went to have a look, but I believe the little terrace houses were demolished during the 1960s slum clearances? However, I found some photos of Gregson St. properties in the Recird Office, so at least I have some idea of what their home would have looked like!

What is a 'nurse child'?

Ah ... my avatar ... that is my great-grandmother, Amy Kelly (nee Anderton) Another Liverpool lass. The Anderton family owned a farm in Stonebridge Lane ... I have a splendid photo of the stone-built farmhouse (long since gone). Thanks for your interest!

Bestest,
Paula.

Post by **MaryA** » 22 Mar 2009 18:16

Hi,

Your Amy looks as if she would have been a very stylish lady, love the hairdo!

Nurse child is a child taken into the home of someone to care for them because of circumstances that require the child's care away from their parents. There could be many reasons for this including the child being the offspring of a relation.

There would not necessarily have been payment for the care of the child as the arrangement may well have been quite informal.

Wow Robson Street, I just used googlemaps to see if I could make out the age of the properties there and it is one of those that has "streetview" available. Although some of the houses are obviously new, if you travel along the street you will see some of the terraced houses built probably somewhere shortly before 1900.

Post by **ZED** » 22 Mar 2009 23:27

Hi Mary ~

I don't know how on earth Amy coped with that hair-do

I have other photos of her, and she's impeccably dressed in all of them!

Thanks for the info re: 'nurse child'. By the time of the 1871 census both Fanny & John had passed away (dod. 1868). Margaret had married Alfred McQuinn and was living at 52 Gregson Street (Everton) with a lodger and an 11 year-old boy called William Hamilton. I'm assuming that this is the same child that Tina spotted on the 1861 census who's name is given as William Haintton ... so it seems that he wasn't returned to his parents.
NB: I've searched for 'Haintton' and not had a single 'hit' anywhere, so it's surely an error ... perhaps the census official didn't understand the Irving's accent

Wm. Hamilton's birthplace is given as Ireland, so I have no idea whose son he was as the Irvings had no Irish connections (as far as I know). They originally hailed from Cumberland/Westmorland.

So it seems that Margaret brought up the boy. Do you happen to know whether he's likely to have been formally adopted? I'm thinking that these arrangements were probably far more ad hoc in those days?

Oh that street-view facility is amazing

Bestest,
Paula.

Post by **northmeols** » 23 Mar 2009 01:10

he could have been an orphan from the Irish influx of 1857-62 many were starving and had diseases that killed whole families.

Post by **dot326** » 23 Mar 2009 02:51

Formal adoption didn't happen until about 1927.
As Mary says, it was usually family/friends/neighbours helping out--sometimes becoming long term

Dorothy

Post by **Tina** » 25 Mar 2009 10:16

Hiya
1871 looks like John Mc Quinn 29 bn Wigtown Scotland 29 bootmaker
Margaret 34 bn Lpool
William Hamilton 11 lodger bn Ireland.
RG10/3808/39/18

Tina

Post by **Tina** » 25 Mar 2009 11:05

Hi Zed
Where did you get Alfred from please?
1881 52 Gregson St
John McQuinn, Margaret, 6 kiddies
RG11/3653/40/17

Marriage Margaret Irving 1870 Everton St George to John McQuinn.

Tina

Post by **Tina** » 26 Mar 2009 09:43

Lo tis me again
1881 Wm Hamilton 21 bn Ireland
servant Grocer's Asst
9 Gt Homer St

1881 Wm Hamilton 21 bn Ireland
boarding Labr
14 Cardigan St Wavertree.

Clutching at straws I reckon.

Tina

Post by **ZED** » 28 Mar 2009 14:29

Hi Tina ~

Yes, you're absolutely right ... Margaret's hubby was John (b. Scotland). My mistake ... I was confusing his name with their son Alfred (my ancestor).

I went to see the McQuinn family's cottage in Wigtown (Agnew Street) during the summer of 2007. It's now a Grade 2 listed building. I'll try and add a photobucket link. (It's the white-washed property with the green door).

Thanks for the Wm Hamilton refernces!

Bestest,
Paula.