Hit a brick wall with KELLY..anyone know where to go next?

Post by **Sarah..** » 04 Mar 2009 01:12

Hi, I'm new to these forums and pretty new to family history too so apologies if I'm asking something blindingly obvious.

I'm researching my great grandfather, William James Kelly.
He was my grandads father, he died 6 weeks before my grandad was born and my grandad knew nothing about him, so neither did I.
In the past few months I have found his burial record, year of birth and managed to get his death and marriage certificate.

One of the very few facts family legend has about him is that he was Irish, which explains why I can't seem to find him on any English birth records. I'm not paid up to any geneaology sites to search any Irish records because I can't afford it!

I need to know where I can find his place of birth. as this would be a great help on looking through the free Irish census records.

I know Kelly is a really common name but if anyone knows of anywhere new I can look, has connections with the name or the Walton area of Liverpool, or can do look ups for me, please let me know as I really don't know where to go with it now!

EDIT: He was born in 1891, an awkward year for census searching as he may not have been born by the time the 1891 census was taken, unknown whether he was in England or Ireland when the 1911 was taken. First record of him in England is his marriage in 1923.

Thank you!

Post by **CaroleW** » 04 Mar 2009 01:20

Hi and welcome

You say you have his marriage certificate. Does it show his fathers name and occupation?

We can check the 1901 English census for you just to rule out him being in England at that time.

Post by **Sarah..** » 04 Mar 2009 01:23

The marriage certificate shows his name, age and occupation (dock labourer) but nothing about his father.

The census check would be a great help, thank you!

Post by **CaroleW** » 04 Mar 2009 01:32

Hi

The absence of a fathers name on the marriage cert suggests he was illegitimate

The 1901 only has one Lancashire entry for a William Kelly b 1891 +-1year and his parents were Michael & Mary. All just shown as born Ireland except 2 youngest children

13 Galton St Liverpool

Michael Kelly 50 dock labourer
Mary Kelly 44
Patrick Kelly 20
Michael Kelly 18
Mary Jane Kelly 16
James Kelly 13
William Kelly 10
Margaret Kelly 6 b Liverpool
Thomas Kelly 2 b Liverpool
plus a number of boarders
RG13; Piece: 3425; Folio: 148; Page: 20

Post by **Sarah..** » 04 Mar 2009 01:49

Sorry, my mistake, I don't have the certificate here at the moment as a relative has got it, but I think it did say his father was John Kelly.
Although that census return does make sense, with his father being a dock labourer, and looking at maps that street is right on the docks. Hmm. How confusing.

Post by **Tina** » 04 Mar 2009 11:37

Hi
What age is he on marriage cert & occupation and whom did he marry?

Thanks
Tina

Post by **Sarah..** » 04 Mar 2009 14:02

He is 32 on the marriage certificate, he married Elizabeth Scotton

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 10:42

1891 Possibility, address I can't read but looks like Rockford Rd

Name: William Kelly
Age: 3/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill

Elizabeth Kelly 25 Widow living on own means Liverpool
Charles B Kelly 2 Son Liverpool
William Kelly 3/12 Son Liverpool
Roberty Beaty 24 Brother Liverpool
Elizabeth Magstroyd 18 Servant

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2979; Folio 59; Page 18; GSU roll: 6098089.

Sue

Just coincidence his mother is widowed when he is 3 months old?

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 10:47

Just a bit more here.

Births found for Kelly/Scotton

Robert Kelly Oct Nov Dec 1943 Liverpool N Lancashire
John D Kelly Oct Nov Dec 1924 W Derby Lancashire
William J Kelly Apr May Jun 1926 W Derby Lancashire

Sue

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 11:21

With regards to the family I found on the 1891, I found this marriage.

1888

KELLY Charles BEATY Elizabeth Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/197/180

As it's a Charles Kelly, then it may just be all coincidence.

Sue

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 11:29

But just incase his father may have been called Charles and not John, I believe this is the family on the 1901.

Name: William Jas K Hall
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liscard
County/Island: Cheshire
Harry H Hall 35
Elizabeth Hall 35
Charles B K Hall 12
William Jas K Hall 10
Colin Herbert Hall 1
Isabella M Lloyd 27
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3402; Folio: 64; Page: 14

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896 to 1899
KELLY Elizabeth HALL Harry Herbert Birkenhead, Civil Marriage Wirral BW/51/50

Who were the witnesses to the wedding?

Sue

Post by **Sarah..** » 05 Mar 2009 13:08

Thanks so much for all your help!

The witnesses to the wedding were Annie Breeze and John Free, don't think they were any relation.

The William James Kelly you found born in 1926 is my Grandad, William Kelly Sr's son, he was born 6 weeks after his father died.

I will look through everything you've found with my Mum later and work out if there are any possible leads, thanks again!

Post by **Sarah..** » 05 Mar 2009 13:11

Dominex wrote:1891 Possibility, address I can't read but looks like Rockford Rd

Name: William Kelly
Age: 3/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill

Elizabeth Kelly 25 Widow living on own means Liverpool
Charles B Kelly 2 Son Liverpool
William Kelly 3/12 Son Liverpool
Roberty Beaty 24 Brother Liverpool
Elizabeth Magstroyd 18 Servant

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2979; Folio 59; Page 18; GSU roll: 6098089.

Sue

Just coincidence his mother is widowed when he is 3 months old?

I'm a bit confused with this one..is it taken from 1891 census?
My Grandad, also called William Kelly, was born in 1926 in Walton on the hill. His mother was called Elizabeth and was already a widow when he was born (husband died during pregnancy). So if this is his father you've found, history has repeated itself exactly!

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 14:21

Hi I misread your intial post thinking it was your Gt Grandfather's father that died before he was born.

So we're looking for a William Kelly c1891 with a father called John that's possibly still alive?

Sue

Post by **Dominex** » 05 Mar 2009 15:00

What was John Kelly's occupation on the marriage cert?

Sue

Post by **Sarah..** » 05 Mar 2009 22:57

I know that William Kelly Sr. (my great grandad) died in 1926 at the age of 35 so I doubt his father would still be alive.
I'm just trying to find out where he came from i.e. England/Ireland, and any possible siblings he had.

We're so grateful for all your help especially as it's quite confusing with 2 of them having the same name!

Post by **Sarah..** » 07 Mar 2009 00:06

There's no occupation listed for John David Kelly on the marriage cert.

On the census return where the poster (sorry can't remember who) said the road looked like Rockford Road - it seems as if Rockford Road has never existed, could you please have another look and tell me if the word "Rockford" could actually say "Birchfield", as there is a family house which has been passed down on that side in Birchfield Road, and in that old handwriting an R could be mistaken for a B, ford could be mistaken for field?

Post by **Tina** » 07 Mar 2009 05:43

Hi All
1891 looks like Rockfield Road in Walton which was off Anfield Rd.

Tina

Added later
1894 Directory has a Mrs Kelly at 28 Rockfield Rd Walton

Post by **Sarah..** » 08 Mar 2009 21:02

So at the moment I have three possible families who could be mine, is there anything else I can do to try and work out which one it is? Making things more complicated I've found another 2 possibilities on the Irish 1911 census!
Also CaroleW - the other side of my family is called McDonald, and there are relatives in Liverpool and USA, so let me know if there's anything i can help you out with!

Post by **colette** » 08 Mar 2009 22:01

Hi Sarah you need to give us Williams address on his marriage cert in 1923, also any brothers or sisters you know of for him...

If i think of anything else i'll

let you know

Regards