Binns brothers- both MM winners! UPDATE 1.12.2010

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 28 Dec 2008 15:06

I am on the trail of Charles and Albert Binns, two of the sons of William and Catherine Binns of 12 Albion Street St Helens.

Both served with the St Helens engineers, Albert with 419 Field Company and Charles with 423 Field Company. Albert received his MM for gallantry on a trench raid; he was later wounded and taken pow.

Charles received his MM for gallantry as a sniper at Mesplaux Farm in April 1918. Charles was wounded, I believe on the 16th November 1918 in the same incident that killed Cpl C Hurst (see other posting).

Charles married in 1913, Beatrice May Smart and they had a son, Charles Norman Binns, who was born on 28 April 1914 and who died in 1999 and a daughter. The daughter married someone by the surname BRUMFITT, and had a daughter Margaret Ann who died in infancy and a son Stepen A Brumfitt who married Carol Hayes in 1986.

Any information would be welcome.

Mark

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 29 Dec 2008 12:14

The Citation for 428376 2nd Cpl Charles Binn's Military Medal (MM) is as follows:

"At Mesplaux Farm on 11th April 1918, in face of the enemy, he rallied his men during a hostile attack and personally accounted for several of the enemy. This NCO has previously done much good work. He proved himself a leader and an example of coolness."

Sadly I only have his MM, the British War Medal and Victory are missing.

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 29 Dec 2008 12:30

I always try to visit the homes and if possible the graves of the men who I am trying to research so as to produce as complete apicture as possible of each man.

Today, my youngest son David and I set off to try and locate Charles's grave. We arrived at a very crisp and cold St Helens Cemetery, with the grave reference to hand. I decided that the best place to start would be the Cemetery Office. The EXTREMELY helpful staff at the office produced a plan for us and marked the location of the grave on it AND showed us a photo of the grave we were looking for! Excelent; thank you ladies.

Armed with this information, even I found it easy to locate the grave.

The grave stone commemorates:

Charles Binns- 16th September 1954
Beatrice May Binns- 24th May 1958
Margaret Ann Brumfitt- 8th March 1957 aged 11 weeks (grand daughter)
Charles Norman Binns- 7 February 1999 (son of Charles and Beatrice)

I know from the above that Charles and Beatrice had a daughter (married name Brumfitt). I have discovered a grandson (Brumfitt) and his marriage in St Helens. I have the details for these if anybody is able to help further this line."

How should I go about trying to complete the details for this family?

Mark

Post by **MaryA** » 29 Dec 2008 13:51

I wonder if the local St Helens newspaper has something similar to the Liverpool Echo's Old Pals section - people who have lost touch with old friends and are looking for living people. Which brings me round to saying, please don't post anything more recent than you already have on a public board as we are risking giving details of living people now, by those dates.

If anybody is able to assist with more up to date family, maybe they can send you a pm about it and then update this thread if it's further back you need information for.

Thanks for your understanding on this matter.

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 29 Dec 2008 14:19

Hello Mary,

Thanks for your advice. I hope I have not caused any problems here?

My aim is simply research into the St Helens RE. Obviously, it is living relatives I am after who can provide me with details of their ancestor's service. I am particular looking for photos of the men which helps to bring then to life.

Mark

Post by **northmeols** » 29 Dec 2008 15:29

Have you searched for living relatives on 192.com.....did a quick search and he is on the electoral roles 2008 with wife .....you have to buy credits to look at info....but I have got some great results with them

http://www.192.com/search/people.cfm

Name removed in case we are referring to living people. MA

Post by **Tina** » 29 Dec 2008 19:40

Hi Mark
There are two people in Genes Reunited who have Stephen listed.

Good luck!
Tina

Post by **northmeols** » 29 Dec 2008 21:21

do you have his birth reg

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
Name: Stephen A Brumfitt
Year of Registration: 1958
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Binns
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 353

Post by **MaryA** » 29 Dec 2008 21:23

Mark does have that detail, but I worry that we are getting too recent to post on an open forum in view of the fact that these people are still living. Please don't post anything of more recent date than this.

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 05 Jan 2009 14:31

I have established that Charles Binns was living at 56 Kirkland Street in 1918.

Does anyone know if a photo exists of Kirkland Street prior to its "improvement"?

Happy New Year to all.

Mark

Post by **Tilly** » 05 Jan 2009 21:26

Hi

If you find one I'd like a copy my great great grandfather William Hughes died in Kirkland Street in 1887.

Tilly

Post by **Gail** » 06 Jan 2009 02:10

Mark

Stephen is related to me. I'm at work at the moment but will look at this more closely when I get home.

Gail Brumfitt

Post by **Gail** » 06 Jan 2009 07:13

Hi again Mark

I'm now at home with all of the information to hand. I will PM you with the modern stuff but what I can tell you is that Stephen is my fourth cousin. I have never been in contact with him but am aware of someone who has and I will try to get an email address for you.

Just for the record, our common ancestors are William BRUMFITT born 1815 in Colne, LAN and Margaret MORRIS born 1816 Prestatyn, FLN.

Stephen's 2 x great grandparents were Charles BRUMFITT born 1841 in West Derby and Eliza McINTYRE born 1841.

Charles was a brother to my 2 x great grandfather Edward BRUMFITT born 1839 in Everton and who married Hannah TUNSTALL born 1840 in Kirkby.

Gail

Post by **Gail** » 07 Jan 2009 08:41

Hi Mark

Was the information I sent in the PM of any use?

Gail

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 07 Jan 2009 09:10

Gail,

YES! the information was very useful; thank you.

Florence May Binns is the daughter of Charles and Beatrice May Binns making Stephen "my" man's grandson.

I have found a reference in my records to a photo of Albert Binns in the St Helens papers, although I do not have a copy. Albert is of course the brother of Charles. Alberts papers have survived on Ancestry and make fascinating reading.

I would be very happy for you to put me in contact with Stephen, who may I suppose have some information on Charles.

Best wishes,

Mark

Post by **Gail** » 12 Jan 2009 07:58

Hi Mark

I've just heard back from the person who has been in contact with Stephen. Unfortunately he doesn't have his email address, but he is going to look into it.

Gail

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 13 Jan 2009 07:45

Gail,

Many thanks. Your efforts are appreciated.

Mark

Post by **dave binns** » 13 Feb 2009 09:05

hi mark,
my name is david binns grandson of charles binns
charles had 2 sons norman and eric {my dad } still alive
eric served ww2 in the engineers and was also wounded in france
he was sent to leeds hospital were he met my mother a nurse
i still live in the st helens area and have more information about
our family during ww1 & ww2 if you would like it
even original maps of ww1 gun sites german & british used by charles

Contact details have been sent to Mark in a private message. MA
regards

dave

Post by **MaryA** » 13 Feb 2009 09:37

Welcome to the forum Dave, and thank you for bringing this thread up to date, it sounds like you are going to be able to help Mark with his research enormously.

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 13 Feb 2009 09:58

Dave,

Thanks for taking so much trouble to track me down! My mum rang me and passed on your message.

I would really appreciate meeting with you to discuss your family's service with the RE.

Regards

Mark