Leah M Watts 1876-1952

[Alison C]

Is this Rachel in the 1851 census, living with her uncle:

Rachel George
England and Wales Census, 1851


Name: Rachel George
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1851
Event Place: Tywardreath, Cornwall, England
Registration District: St Austell
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Marital Status: Unmarried
Relationship to Head of Household: Niece
Birth Year (Estimated): 1851
Birthplace: Tywardreath, Cornwall
Page Number: 23
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 1906 / 136
Affiliate Record Type: Household
Household
Role
**********
Age
Birthplace
Thomas George
Head
Male
27
Tywardreath, Cornwall
Levinia George
Wife
Female
26
Tywardreath, Cornwall
Mary Ann George
Daughter
Female
3
Tywardreath, Cornwall
Elizabeth George
Daughter
Female
1
Tywardreath, Cornwall
Rachel George
Niece
Female
0
Tywardreath, Cornwall

[Alison C]

A possible marriage for Helen/Ellen Watts?

Ellen Watts
England Marriages, 1538–1973


Name:
Abraham Bark
Spouse's Name: Ellen Watts
Event Date: 1877
Event Place: St. Silas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name:
Andrew Bark
Spouse's Father's Name:
John Watts

The image for this is available on FamilySearch and shows John Watts as a Miner https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... at=1485638

[Alison C]

And here are Ellen and Abraham Bark in the 1881 census:

Ellen Bark
England and Wales Census, 1881


Name: Ellen Bark
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1881
Event Place: Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Registration District: West Derby
Residence Note: Foley St
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Marital Status: Married
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1856
Birthplace: St Austell, Cornwall, England
Page Number: 14
Registration Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3680/97
Affiliate Record Type: Household
Household
Role
**********
Age
Birthplace
Abraham Bark
Head
Male
35
Scotland
Ellen Bark
Wife
Female
25
St Austell, Cornwall, England
Andrew J Bark
Son
Male
3
Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Thomas Bispham
Boarder
Male
25
Bolton, Lancashire, England

[Alison C]

And here they are in 1891 with......Leah Maud!! So, was she actually Ellen's illegitimate daughter??

Ellen Bark
England and Wales Census, 1891


Name: Ellen Bark
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: Lancashire
Parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical Parish: ST MARYS
Registration District: West Derby
Gender: Female
Age: 35
Marital Status: Married
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1856
Birthplace: Cornwall, England
Page Number: 25
Registration Number: RG12
Piece/Folio: 2961/ 41
Household
Role
**********
Age
Birthplace
Abraham Bark
Head
Male
45
Greenock, Scotland
Ellen Bark
Wife
Female
35
Cornwall, England
Leah Maud Bark
Daughter
Female
15
England
Andrew John Bark
Son
Male
13
Liverpool, England

[Alison C]

Interesting that Abraham Bark was from Greenock same as Leah's husband Robert Gardiner Bark.

[Bertieone]

Alison,

Leah Maud was registered, mothers maiden name, George, perhaps taken on as a daughter after her parents had passed?

Mother on death cert, Jane George.

[emacalister]

Very intriguing. Could she have married a Step relation?
There was an uncle Abraham who died at an old age in a mariners home back in Greenock. This guy could be him.
Thanks again for your help all.

[emacalister]

Just found a baptism record on Scotland's people for Abraham Bark.
child of Robina Gardiner and Andrew Bark
Born 12/08/1845
Baptised 14/9/1845 in Greenock

[Bertieone]

Name:
Robert Gardiner Bark

Gender:
Male

Birth Date:
17 Dec 1860

Birth Place:
Stranraer,Wigtown,Scotland

Father:
Andrew Bark

Mother:
Robina Gardiner

[Bertieone]

Following on from the 1851 census Alison provided.

Thomas George in a later census has his mother with him, Miriam Gilbert (remarried)

Thomas's parents were, William George/Miriam Wakeham.

Baptism,

Jane George
30 October, 1825,
Tywardreath, Cornwall,
William George/Miriam

Marriage, William George, Miriam Wakehame

[Bertieone]

Just found a baptism record on Scotland's people for Abraham Bark.
child of Robina Gardiner and Andrew Bark
Born 12/08/1845
Baptised 14/9/1845 in Greenock

Abraham & Robert were brothers, looking like 2 brothers married 2 sisters?

[emacalister]

We got Leah's birth certificate which shows her being born on second of June 1845. There is no father's name and the mother is listed as Jane Watts (formally George). If she was, or is claiming to be, married to John Watts it's odd she left father's name blank.
My mum and I are taking a trip to Liverpool at the end of November to try and research further.

Thanks again for all the assistance.

[Bertieone]

An unmarried fathers name could not be added to the birth certificate unless he was present at registration.

Illegitimacy
https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/civil ... -wales/19/

[MaryA]

There is a possible marriage on FreeBMD

Marriages Sep 1843
BLUETT Thomas Williams Scilly Is. 9 281
ELLIS Sarah Scilly Isles 9 281
GEORGE Jane Scilly Isles 9 281
ODGER Honor Scilly I 9 281
OLIVER John Scilly I 9 281
PENDER Elizabeth Scilly Is 9 281
PHILLIPS George Scilly I 9 281
WATTS Francis Scilly Islds 9 281

We obviously can't be certain unless we find more details of the marriage whether these two married each other, or one of the other names on the list, but I wondered if the location meant anything to you in your research?

[Bertieone]

Francis Watts/Honor Odger
John Oliver/Jane George

https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/s ... =Search#rs

[MaryA]

Thought it was too much of a coincidence

[emacalister]

Hi again folks and as always thanks for the help.
I’ve used the free find my past weekend to find out a little about Ellen. She too was born in Cornwall and moved to Liverpool where it looks like she met and married Abraham Bark after being a servant. I also found a Jane and John Watts with a daughter Ellen B Watts but nothing else fits with it being them.
What I think would be interesting to find out would be the relationship between Ellen, Jane and Rachel.
I was also wondering if Jane May have died not long after Leah’s birth and that would explain why she was with other family members and never with her mum.
My mum and I are travelling from Scotland to Liverpool at the end of the month and are planning to spend time researching at the library on November 30. We’re not sure how much support we will get there so if any of you will be about we would appreciate any help.

[Bertieone]

What I think would be interesting to find out would be the relationship between Ellen, Jane and Rachel.

If the 1861 census Mary posted is correct, Ellen and Rachel are sisters, Jane their mother.

[emacalister]

True. Its odd that the closest to a complete family on my English side is in Ardrishaig so close to where I lived and still visit all the time. Looks like they went there so John could work in the Duke of Argyll's mines. By 1871 they are all older and split up.
If Jane's age is correct surely it is unlikely she is Leah's mum? I think the theory put forward about her being Ellen's daughter is plausible but could you put the wrong name as mother on a a birth certificate?

[Bertieone]

The problem is, it's hard to prove anything other than what's on the birth certificate.

The tall story would be, Ellen gave birth to a child and Jane registered that child as her own, a pretence that lasted all of Leah's life according to her death certificate.

We very rarely question birth certificates and it's not that the information was public knowledge, if it was a question of embarrassment, many took a chance and didn't register the child.