help needed: Johan Eckeho married 08.6.1880

[simone]

This may be of interest to you Liz, from

http://home.clara.net/mawer/liverpool.html

The German connection.
Work in the sugar house was heavy, hot and subject to a degree of hazard. Illness was common, and life expectancy short. It was not attractive to the English worker and was even shunned by the Irish labourers (although they eventually made up the largest proportion of unskilled workers). It was because of this refiners recruited German workers in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. In fact, some of the refiners themselves were of German origin. This firstly applied to the large sugar industry in London and then progressed to Liverpool in the middle of the 19th century with the opening of Jager's refinery.
It was usual for batches of about 2 dozen men to be brought over mainly from the Hamburg area. The pay was high, particularly if you were a skilled sugar boiler. The hours were long but there were perks - gallons of beer to replace the body moisture lost in the terrific heat!
In Liverpool there was a large German immigrant population in the second half of the 19th century, some being connected with the sugar industry. In 1851 census there were 44 German born sugar workers. By 1881 this had risen to around 200.


Simone x

[Tina]

Interesting piece of history Simone, good find!

George Jagers was in Blackstock St in 1853 Directory.

Thanks for your reply Mary, especially about the tick on the side of entry.

Tina

[buttercups1971]

hello again,

I have done a little bit of research on the sugar industry and it is very interesting. Thanks simone for the link

http://www.mawer.clara.net/sugaree.html

THis is what I found, loads of names but none of them matching my man. Interesting storys on here also.

thanks again
liz

[colette]

Hi

I would say the John EKoff with Charles & Sarah REINECKE in 1871 is your man..
They lived in SUMMER SEAT.. from 1861-1881 not far from Tatlock St, plus Charles also worked in Sugar Works... so seen as though John is just down as a Labourer in 1871 i would say Charles got him the job at the Sugar Works..Charles later becomes a foreman there..

I was trying to find anything out there on ECKHO and there is very little which makes me thing his name has been shortened or altered..

Tried also to find a connection between Reinecke and Eckho..as he could have been a relation of Charles.. but nothing..as Charles must have come over c 1850s..cannot locate him in 1851.

If John is an Ekoff in 1871..maybe this was his surname and he shortened it by the time he married Mary.

Why the change to Hagar ???


xx

[buttercups1971]

Hello Colette,

That is a very intersting link to Charles & Sarah REINECKE in 1871. It would make sense that he was introduced to the job.

I am still very confused by the name of Ekhno. His marriage certificate is definatly spelt Eckeho.As previously said the name could have been anything as nothing firm in any of my research. Even the marriage certificate could be wrong??

Change of name from Johan eckeho to John Hagar. I have no idea why the change to john hagar. I though it could have been the liverpool regeneration and the fact they wanted a house?? and would be better off having a different name?? No idea,, none... nothing linking before the change to hagar. Its a real mystery to me. I have spoken to other family members who have done similar to me and have come to a dead end. I did think it was due to the impending war? I know peter hagar (son) went to war and was a prisoner of war he obtained the gold star. He did return home and went on to marry and have my grandmother.

I know that my peter hagar came back from the war and did not speak to his family. Somthing to do with sending money back from the war and being told he had to pay for his mothers funneral,even though he was told they had a certificate to prove she had an insurance policy.

Its a total mystery to me and others within our family. My nan confirms she was aware of the german connection and had a memory pf prusssa??

mmmmmmm the plot thickens..
I will do a bit more research on this name you have given me. I did find the secret list of imigrants but he was not on their either?? nothing,, he must have changed his name,, even in germany nothing with this name.

agian thanks for the help much appreciated
liz

[buttercups1971]

hi all

Well i have been researching the possible link to charles Reinecke and sarah. I have found they were perussian/german and they do have other family around. can see that he was a sugar boiler?

but no real link to my johan. cant fine the 1870 censsos with johan with charles?? maybe a bit more searching.

I feel so close i can smell it!! I hav been looking at the surname
Reinecke --- very similar to eckenho.. could he have just made it up??

REINECKE Charles of Prussia (age 52) (40 Summerseat) Liverpool 1881 1881 Census (from CD-ROM)
REINECKE Charles - (age 19) (40 Summerseat) Liverpool 1881 1881 Census (from CD-ROM)
REINECKE Joachim of Abbendorf - - to London 1852 Metzner - Shipping Lists
REINECKE John of Yotts, Westphalia (age 24) (32 Summerseat) Liverpool 1881 1881 Census (from CD-ROM)
REINECKE Richard (boiler) Holly Sugar Co Swink City, Otero County Colorado 1914 McKinney1
REINECKE - of Hannover - - to London 1859 Metzner - Shipping Lists

http://www.mawer.clara.net/sugarrr.html

mmmmmmm this name game is driving me nuts!! I just cant find the link,, must be somewhere?? must be!!

thanks again liz

[buttercups1971]

ok ok,, i think i may have found somthing!
Name: Johann Reinecke
Arrival Date - 21 Jul 1868
Estimated Birth Year - abt 1842
Age - 26
Gender - Male
Port of Departure - Hamburg, Germany
Destination - United States of America
Place of Origin - Germany
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality - German
Ship Name - Germanic
Port Arrival State - New York

now,,, i was told that some boats stopped in liverpool on their way to america? some of the people decided to stay due to the work?? and never re-boarded,, now am i clutching at straws! its a nice link! hahah but not sure! if this bloke was 38 in 1880 i have my man,,, well maybe??


yes i am lossing my marbles,, this surname does have a very good link to the one he was using?? what you tink?

again liz

[Hilary]

I think it might be worth looking at this marriage on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

Charles Reinecke married Sarah Leatherbarrow in 1856 at St Nicholas and Our Ladys Liverpool

I was wondering if Charles and Johan were brothers so if Charles has a father Peter .........


Just a thought

Ed Officer

[buttercups1971]

hi thanks for the tip about charles dad.. the little bit of research i have done links charles to his dad who was also charles from prussia
REINECKE Charles of Prussia (age 52) (40 Summerseat) Liverpool 1881 1881 Census
REINECKE Charles - (age 19) (40 Summerseat) Liverpool 1881 1881 Census

mmm i suppose the only think to do is order the marriage certificate? or ask kindly if someone could take a peek for me if going to the records office?? should i start another thread asking for a look up?? dont want to cause any problems.

Its a real mystery.
again thanks for all your help so far
liz

[buttercups1971]

i also have been doing some thoughs about why change to hagar? its seems such an off the wall name to change too...

done a bit of research and i have found a peter hagar who was born in germany and went to america. dates of birth sit with the father of johann

Name: Peter Hagar
Estimated birth year: 1813
Gender: Male
Age: 57y
Race or color (expanded): White
Birthplace: Germany
Residence: Pennsylvania, United States
Collection: United States Census, 1870


Name: Johann Peter Hagar
Male
Burial date: 15 Aug 1804
Burial place: Trippstadt, Bayern, Germany
Father's name: Georg Hagar
Batch number: I08563-8
Record group: Germany-EASy
Film number: 193981
Collection: Germany Burials 1500-1900
(this information was available free?? so i think i ok to post it?? sorry if i am wrong it would be copy right of family search?? am i doing this right?)


mmmmmmm i am starting to think his name was hagar before!!! or am i clutching at straws??

[Hilary]

The marriage I found was I think for the older Charles Reinecke. I would ask for a look up for this marriage on a new thread.

The possible link to Hagar also needs looking at. Does Peter Hagar appear on a shipping list into the US?

The Hagar death you give is not of someone living in the Hanover area

At the back of my mind there is some thought on why some people left Prussia in the 1850s 60s but I can't think what it was - wasn't it on one of the Who do you think you are programmes with someone who was distantly related to royalty? I'll think about it.

Ed Officer

[Hilary]

I think you'd find this interesting

www.progenealogists.com/germansengland.htm

I'd also have a look at the anglo german family history society site as well.

Ed Officer

[buttercups1971]

oooooooooooooo,,, now that is a fantastic link! i will take my time to read the information becouse i have had a little bit of it but not as much as that link!!!

Yes i will do another look up thread for the marriage of the older charles reinecho. I cant find him on the older information so i need to know who is father was? If it was peter we may have a link.

I have done some reasearch on annesetry site and have come up with a family of hagar from germany. I have found a johann peter hagar!!! i have emailed the owner of the tree as a bit of a stab in the dark i just got this feeling,, more research needed

thank you again
liz

[buttercups1971]

regretfully.. just got the information on the look up on the marriage and charles father was not peter and the witness have no link either...

mmmmmm i am still thinking he was hagar before he changed his name and thats why we cant find him before his marriage. something is nagging in the back of my head. This is the time you realy wish the family had a record book that was passed down with all this stuff in!! mmmmmmm

back to the drawing board I think

thanks again for all your suggestion and searching. It does mean alot

thanks liz

[2019-member]

Hi, I’m new here. Hello!

My name is Helen Bainbridge nee Ewart and I am the grand daughter of Henry Hagar, youngest son of Johan Eckeho. This is an old thread I know, but I’m really hoping that as time has moved on since buttercup first asked for help with this vexing search, maybe, just maybe it can be unravelled.

So, what I know. My granny (Nan) Annie Hagar, told me so many stories - I’m the youngest of 3 and Nan lived with us, so I spent a lot of time with her. I grew up with the knowledge that Henry Hagar’s family were Austrian Jews who arrived in the North East in the 1800’s. My Mother (Mavis) is the only child of Annie and Henry Hagar, she is still very much alive and kicking and has been aware of the Eckeho name being discussed in the family but not really much context. Mums belief is that the Family were always worried about being repatriated and she thinks the name was changed to Hagar in the early 1900’s because of this. Hagar is after all an Old Testament Jewish name.

I’m fascinated by the possibility that the Eckeho name is a red herring and that John E Koff pronounced with a Austro-German accent might be written as Eckeho or one of the several other spellings that pepper the records.

I think Buttercup was looking at Charles Reincoke, who John lodged with but I’d really appreciate any advice about chasing down John E Koff to see if he is my Johan...

Hi

I would say the John EKoff with Charles & Sarah REINECKE in 1871 is your man..
They lived in SUMMER SEAT.. from 1861-1881 not far from Tatlock St, plus Charles also worked in Sugar Works... so seen as though John is just down as a Labourer in 1871 i would say Charles got him the job at the Sugar Works..Charles later becomes a foreman there..

I was trying to find anything out there on ECKHO and there is very little which makes me thing his name has been shortened or altered..

Tried also to find a connection between Reinecke and Eckho..as he could have been a relation of Charles.. but nothing..as Charles must have come over c 1850s..cannot locate him in 1851.

If John is an Ekoff in 1871..maybe this was his surname and he shortened it by the time he married Mary.

Why the change to Hagar ???


xx

[2019-member]

Sorry, one thing I forgot to mention, I’ve noticed that the name Eckhoff appears in both the Sugar lists and in Hannover - sounds very like E Koff and even Eckeho if you take an accent into consideration..

[Bertieone]

Hi and welcome,

Apologies if I'm repeating what you already know, at Johan's marriage he signed his own name, so no influence by accent.



A couple of children,

Baptised, Henry Hagar, 1898, parents, John/Mary Ellen. GRO registration, Henry Eckho, 1898, Liverpool 8b 34 mmn, Bartley (transcription error)

Baptised, Lydia Hagar, 1890, GRO registration, Lydia Eckho, mnn, Barkley.

As far as I know the father had to be present at the registration to have his name included, I can only assume that was the name he gave and likely offered the spelling.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum, sorry that the original poster didn't remain a member, but perhaps they will be keeping an eye on this thread to see if anybody responds. I hope we may be able to help with any other aspects where you need it.