For queries within the area of Lancashire between the Ribble and the Mersey.
This board covers the areas of all our Groups - Liverpool, Southport, Warrington, Skelmersdale, Leigh and Widnes.
So Thomas Roberts, b 1885, married Eveline Annie Budgie. I know this as a certainty because the owner of the family tree you cite on Ancestry at https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 0724/facts is in fact the person I'm in direct contact with, and with whom I have a DNA match.
However, the father of Thomas Roberts is not the Thomas Connor Roberts that he has cited in his tree and he is going to remove that reference. Thomas' parents were Thomas and Martha Roberts both of whom came from Cheshire, and Thomas senior was a baker.
The references you have provided for Catherine are interesting and I'll follow them up. Whilst I'm in general agreement with comments about occupations changing ( I did have a plasterer who became a carter, which completely threw me off the scent for a while) then if Catherine's father, as per her marriage certificate, was indeed a Master Mariner, then I'm reluctant to come to the conclusion about a career change to a joiner. One one my lines of Ancestry were Master Mariners and shipwrights who came from Fife to Liverpool. MMs were proud of their status, and either died at sea, or retired with the equivalent of a pension because most of them served in the Merchant Navy, and were listed as 'retired Master Mainers' in the census. Shipwrights were a separate breed and could be listed as ships carpenters or joiners. However I'm be happy to be proven wrong.
I served my apprenticeship as a Shipwright and worked as one for about 18 years until giving it up to go into business. I started my working life and worked with Shipwrights who were not only coming to the end of their working lives but life itself, many being in their 80s and one I knew very well, about 90.
Many of those men went away to sea and were classed as Ships Carpenters, many of my generation went away to sea and again were Ships Carpenters.
Can't say how they went on a hundred years ago plus, I doubt if it was much different,
On land, Dockside, Shipyards, Shipwrights,
At Sea, Ships Carpenters.
Shipwrights=Joiners, never.
Returning to our Master Mariner,
Just to offer an example, many years ago a dear friend of this and other forums, Dickiesam, no longer with us. He and I chased a Master Mariner on a marriage cert until we were blue in the face, cut a long story short, evidence on other documentation, he was a Master Mason. I'm sure others could give plenty of examples of similar stories.
Just to add I've seen many, Master Joiners.
Anyway, William Williams, Joiner, that's were the dots ended up and the only thing I can think of that may nail it is if the birth certificate of the child registered in Toxteth, 1919 has the address Grain St on it.
So Thomas Roberts, b 1885, married Eveline Annie Budgie. I know this as a certainty because the owner of the family tree you cite on Ancestry at https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 0724/facts is in fact the person I'm in direct contact with, and with whom I have a DNA match.
Please don't assume that because you have a DNA match that their tree is accurate, your match with each other might well be through a different sibling/cousin etc. You may well be right, but even so keep an open mind.
many years ago a dear friend of this and other forums, Dickiesam, no longer with us.
He is very much missed around here, not forgotten
MaryA Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
Hi Bert,
Thanks for the insight regarding shipwrights and Master Mariners. It's always useful to get other perspectives and additional data points and I'm definitely keeping an open mind on these matters. The insight into 'shipwrights whilst on land' and 'ships carpenters whilst at sea' is particularly useful - I hadn't thought about that. My grandfather was a shipwright but I don't believe he ever went to sea as a ship's carpenter. On the other hand his brother was a ship's carpenter and died at sea in 1909. The seafarers lived very tough lives and kudos to them all. My 3g-grandfather was a river pilot on the Mersey and died at sea whilst trying to save someone's life in 1842.
As for DNA matches and Ancestry trees, then I find myself frequently double-checking Ancestry trees because so many of them are inaccurate. I ALWAYS check the original census record image to make sure that the transcription is accurate. Ages on census records are always suspect. I had a great-grandmother who appeared to have been born in 1846 until after my great-grandfather died, after which she appeared to be born in 1841. It was only then that I was able to locate her birth certificate.
With regard to Catherine and Thomas, the MOST LIKELY connection I have with the tree owner is through Catherine because of DNA triangulation with other known relatives so that is my first line of inquiry.
