Catherine Williams and Thomas Roberts m 6/8/1883

[Tantau]

Hi,
I'm trying to trace the ancestry of Catherine Williams from the following marriage:

Marriage: 6 Aug 1883 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Thomas Roberts - 21, Milk Dealer, Bachelor, Greaves St
Catherine Williams - 21, Spinster, Bran St
Groom's Father: Thomas Roberts, Baker
Bride's Father: William Williams, Master Mariner
Witness: George Runacus; Annie Williams

I know they had a son Thomas Roberts born on the 30th September 1885, at which time they were living at Greaves Street but I can find no apparent census record for Catherine prior to their marriage in 1883, or for the family after their marriage, so I have no way of knowing whether she was born in Liverpool or possibly North Wales.

I have been able to trace Thomas Roberts snr. back in time (the witness George Runacus was his brother-in-law) but can''t get a fix on Catherine at all. The witness Annie Williams may be her sister or her mother but I've now way of figuring it out. I've pretty much exhausted all the usual resources so if anyone on this forum has some ideas they would be gratefully received.

Many thanks, Gordon.

[retiringtype]

Query also posted on Rootschat http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=801891

[Bertieone]

If anyone can take a walk down Greaves St, 1891 census.

[retiringtype]

They are not in Greaves Street in the 1891 census

[Bertieone]

Thanks, RT

[Bertieone]

1911

2 Bran Street
Marital Status:
Widowed
William Williams 77 , head, House Joiner
Catherine Roberts 49 Widow, Daughter

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... sePUB=true

The transcription is Bran Street, looks more like Grain St?

[retiringtype]

Yes definitely Grain Street. It's clearer on the next household return (Sargent at 2a Grain Street)

[Bertieone]

Yes RT, thanks,

Taking advantage of Catherine's wrongful inclusion of marriage years details, 1911.

Restricting the search to Lancashire, Free BMD, -/+1, 1881-1883, only 2 hits

Catherine Williams marrying Roberts, both Toxteth Park, both Thomas Roberts.

1881, father, John Williams

1883, father, William Williams, marriage, Gordon's entry, first post

[Bertieone]

I can't find a Mrs Williams buried from Grain St, however, there's a Mary Ann Williams, aged 54, buried at Toxteth Pk from 15 Bran Street, 19 May, 1898.

[Bertieone]

1881 census
Mary Ann Williams was living at 15 Bran Street with husband John Williams, son John and daughter Rachael, all born Liverpool.

At number 1 Bran Street,

William Williams, Joiner, Denbigh,
Elizabeth, wife, Corwen
Henry, son
Elizabeth, daughter.

[Bertieone]

1920 Electoral Register

Thomas Roberts, likely to be her son, her being a widow.

[Bertieone]

Before anyone comments, he's not a mariner, the explanation is I decided not to follow the Mariner route, reasons, occupations change and mistakes are made, etc.
Concentrating on names and addresses to see where the dots joined up.

As luck would have it, Catherine Roberts declared her marriage years, etc. on the 1911 census, if she is not the one who married Thomas Roberts, 6 August 1883, St Michael's. who, when and where did she marry?

Just to add to the mix, she also had a sister, Annie, more coincidences perhaps?

RG10 p3802 f23 p39


https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... cessSource

[MaryA]

There are usually no such thing as coincidences in genealogy, the clues tend to mostly match up as the important ones in your trail appear to do Bert. I can overlook the difference in an occupation as a change often happens. You've followed a good lead there I believe.

[Bertieone]

Thanks, Mary,

I thought worth pursuing.

[Bertieone]

Another snippet from the 1920 Electoral Reg, no idea who Annie is, Daughter, Sister, Daughter in Law.

Is it known who Thomas Roberts, Bn 1885, married?

There was a marriage, Thomas Roberts/Annie Roberts, 1916, West Derby Reg office.

[retiringtype]

Public tree on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 0724/facts

[Bertieone]

Public tree on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 0724/facts

Pity there's no marriage cert, unless I've missed it?

Best not comment further.

[Bertieone]

Though the wife on the tree calls herself Annie when lodging at Bembridge St Liverpool, 1911 census.

Ellen Wenlock 64
Annie Evelyn Roberts 24
Evelyn Annie Jane Roberts 11 Wks

[Bertieone]

4th child born to Thomas & Annie, Clara M B Roberts 1919, Toxteth reg.

I wonder what address is on her birth cert? haven't found baptism.

[Tantau]

Folks, thanks for all these replies. Apologies for the late response - I've been away for a fews days. Will now spend some time digesting all this information.

Thanks again, Gordon.