Elizabeth Smith born about 1863

[42lingfield]

Can members help please. I am reasonably confident that her birth is West Derby 1863 Sept Qtr as her mother's maiden name was Pringle and Parkinson by her first marriage. Her mother's first name was Margaret. Elizabeth appears on the 1891 census at 34 Kingslake St but it shows her age as 26 suggesting a later birth year. I have traced her brothers William H Smith and Thomas Pringle Smith but I am unable to find much about Elizabeth, in particular if she married and had children. Any info would be most welcome.

[Bertieone]

For the crew,
1891 census,
34 Kinglake St, West Derby,
RG12 P2989, F103, Page39

Margt Smith 65
Elizabeth Smith 56
Thomas P Smith 23
Thomas Wilson 38
Margh Smith 34
William J Smith 2

[Bertieone]

Brother, Thomas Pringle Smith married Florence Mary Holland, 1896, Prestwich.
Father, William Smith, Jeweller.

Elizabeth's marriage.

[Bertieone]

1911,
Penlake St, Sutton, St Helens.
RG14 P22799
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... h=23915620

As Transcribed,
John Henry Carter 52
Elizabeth Carter 47
Cellan Elizabeth Carter 19 ............Lillian?
Hary Carter 16 ............Harry?
Mazzie Carter 14...........Maggie?
Thomas Carter 12
Florance Carter 10
John William Carter 7
Abert Carter 5
Edith Carter 11/12

[Bertieone]

1901,
RG13 P3526 F131 Page50
St Helens
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... h=33778274
John H Carter 41
Elizabeth Carter 37
Ethel E Carter 13
Gertrude M Carter 12
Lillian E Carter 8
Harry Carter 6
Maggie Carter 4
Thomas Carter 2
Florence Carter 5/12

[Bertieone]

John Henry's previous marriage,

[Bertieone]

Ethel and Gertrude, 1901 census, belong to the above marriage, registered with mother's maiden name, Syder.

[Bertieone]

Harry Carter, 14472, Kings Liverpool, KIA, 2/4/1915.

Soldiers effects, John Henry Carter, Father.

Service Number 14472
Died 02/04/1915
Aged 20
"B" Coy. 4th Bn.
The King's (Liverpool Regiment)
Son of John Henry and Elizabeth Carter, of Penlake House, Penlake Lane, Sutton Oak, St. Helens, Lancs.

[42lingfield]

Dear Bert - I have been wrestling with this problem for weeks and you have moved me on within hours. Much appreciated - thanks. Peter.

PS For my own future reference where did you start bearing in mind the large number of Elizabeth Smiths

[Bertieone]

Peter,

Once her father's name was established, as you know there are many ways of doing that.
Her brother Thomas Pringle Smith is a good name, finding his marriage gives father's name and occupation, it's then a matter of looking for a marriage for Elizabeth, from the last census she appeared on as a Smith, a few years at a time with a father William who's a Jeweller.

We get lucky if the cert is online.

[42lingfield]

Bert, We spent yesterday with our old postcard collection so we now know who were the various senders. We also saw that we lost another family member in the Great War. I should let you rest but there is one sender of cards who still eludes me - 'cousin Annie' who sent many cards to John Henry Smith who was at the Bluecoat School between July 1904 and August 1907. However, the stamps were removed for a collection so there are no dates but Annie gives a new address viz 39 Burns Ave,Sea View Road, Liscard, Ches. From what I am able to access I cannot find the name of the family who lived there at that time. Are you able to access anything please? Peter.

[Bertieone]

Peter,

The 1911 Directory for 39 Burns Ave, Liscard has William H Proctor, address not in the 1900,
however, William Henry Proctor married Hannah Parkinson, 1882, Birkenhead.

Parkinson being the one time name of Margaret Smith?

William and Hannah had a daughter Annie, perhaps she sent the postcard?


PROCTOR, ANNIE KIRKMAN, mmn, PARKINSON
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 539

[MaryA]

John Henry Smith who was at the Bluecoat School between July 1904 and August 1907.

There are records for the Bluecoat School at the Liverpool Record Office, they may give details of parents, baptism etc.

[42lingfield]

Bert - I was about to reply last night but my daughter arrived to join us for dinner. She had been looking on Friday and Saturday for the elusive 'cousin Annie'. Feeling more than a little smug I said I knew who she was though I had to admit that she was discovered by your goodself. Thanks again.

Mary - Thanks for the posting about the Bluecoat School. I remember 60 years ago I used to cycle past it but I think at that at the time I thought it to be an elite school. It remains in my memory as wizzing down the hill to Picton Clocktower my wheel caught in the tramlines and I met the road at high speed. Do you know when it ceased to be an orphanage? At the turn of the century when research was much more difficult I wrote to the Bursar who said individual's personal records were available but could be not be released until 100 years after the pupil had left. He did however send me a copy of the admission and departure register which provided a few useful snippets. Before I reopen my JHS file do you know if the Record Office generally puts most of its records online as we are 250 miles away?

PS Your bringing to my attention the GRO index for births has enabled us to advance our research considerably. Thanks for that help.

[MaryA]

PS Your bringing to my attention the GRO index for births has enabled us to advance our research considerably. Thanks for that help.

That has certainly been a boon to us!

We are told "on the quiet" that Ancestry soon won't have exclusivity over the Liverpool Records as Findmypast are in there digitising some now, however I can't find out which records, but also Ancestry have also been doing their job on more records than they have currently, again unknown what will be covered.

I will do my best to find a little time on Tuesday morning - for one of our members - to see if I can find any entry for your John Henry Smith, no promises with a name like that but fingers crossed.

[42lingfield]

Mary - thanks. The extract from the book gives me his status viz 'orphan', his guardian 'Mrs Smith of Byford St, his work allocation 'Billingtons Sugar' and of course date in and date out. If anyone can see what there is - great but please don't let them spend hours of their time on it; we have the basics so any more will be the icing on the cake.

Peter.

[MaryA]

Got copies of the two page admission details that I will scan and post this evening (or maybe tomorrow), they don't give a lot more information than what you already had except the dates and places of both his baptism and parents marriage.

Now the film was missing for the baptism entry so I'm waiting to see the original register and take a photo of the page, however, they were telling porkie pies about their marriage as I don't find one at all for them at St Silas and indeed no reference for William Smith to Annie Barratt in Freebmd either.

[Bertieone]

Mary,

William Henry Smith/Anna Hibbert Barratt, 1889, St Silas.

[Blue70]

Blue

[MaryA]

Haha I think I have the problem, the entry for the Bluecoat School gave the date of the marriage just below whereas I took it to be the date on the same line - which actually belonged to the entry above. They just like confusing me!





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