1911 census Thomas and Margaret Wilson 88 Crown St, Lpl

[lynne99]

Bert you keep coming up with these interesting snippets . Thank you so much.

[Bertieone]

Bert you keep coming up with these interesting snippets . Thank you so much.

Thanks Lynne,
Hopefully they're useful.

[MaryA]

OK I didn't forget about my promise to make an enquiry about a plan for the Necropolis Cemetery, but what I have is probably not quite what you - or me - were expecting. I had to book it into the archives for yesterday and took my camera along and was quite amazed to see what had been laid out for me. There were two long maps about six feet each in length. I have only bothered to take photographs of one of them as they were both the same except that this one had an overlay of red markings denoting Grant Gardens as they were laid out later.

I don't know how on earth you will be able to find your own particular grave, but of course you will be able to zoom in on each to read the numbers. They are three photographs, from left to right.

http://imgur.com/a/qogyy

http://imgur.com/a/TsRaH

http://imgur.com/a/TOe8S

[Bertieone]

Well done, Mary.

Speckled Jim sent.

[MaryA]

I think if you have any details you have managed to work out from this, it might be best to share on here as the information is for 42Lingfield rather than me. But hope these maps will be useful for others, I've added a link on our post for Burials, Graves and MI's https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... =14&t=5739

[Bertieone]

http://imgur.com/21HEjYt

James Wilson's grave number is/was 7980, image portion taken from Mary's middle link.

76162 was the running number, yet to figure that out.

Order of going in the ground?

[Bertieone]

http://imgur.com/7IiJaAZ

Margaret Alice Wilson, 8374

http://imgur.com/XugXQM2

Thomas Wilson, 8012

[MaryA]

Might have known you guys would suss it out, I would have had to go to Specsavers to see that lot!

[Bertieone]

I thought by looking at the maps, the pits as reported in the Mersey Times were the large squares.
For example, James Wilson, Grave number, 7980 was buried with, I gave up counting at 38.

There must have been different size pits, Margaret Alice Wilson, Grave number, 8374, I expected to be something like a 5 person plot (size on map) at least 16 people in that plot.

If you find a grave number, check a few pages either side for what sort of shared burial it may have been.

[MaryA]

You could well be right, and the numbers in the pits may have depended on the dates of burials. When I visited St Patricks recently the Warden walked me round the grounds to see a couple of the memorials, usually of the Priests, but on one side of the church were two large square dips in the ground and he told me that they had been filled in a few years ago but had sunk again - about a foot deep. Many of the burials took place in the mid 1840s and it has been speculated that the reason for the pits being so large was because of the typhus epidemic and individual graves were mostly not feasible, just so many bodies being buried in the same grave.

[42lingfield]

Hello Everybody. Many thanks for the most interesting findings. When my wife and I lived in Everton more than 50 years ago we passed the Necropolis regularly without realising its significance to the family. All I do remember is the Gregson's Well pub on the opposite side.

The chances of me getting to Liverpool again for family history research are no better than 50:50. I assume that the Necropolis is always open. What would I see there? Are there headstones and name tablets? Before a got my train south I remember that I took a bus to the Smithdown Rd, cemetery to see the grave of Thomas' father James first two wives, Mary and Margaret but all I found was a heap of soil (I assume I found the right plot).

Whilst tracing through the new info I came across St Cyprians church Edge Lane which is where Thomas and Margaret married but I found it has been converted into flats. Does anyone know if part is still open as a church?

Thanks again for you efforts on our behalf. Peter

[MaryA]

I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed on both counts. You will notice that we have a Board dedicated to the memorial at St Cyprians where we have tried our best to create small biographies for those heroes in order that they won't be forgotten, https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... m.php?f=36 but I don't believe that developers would leave any part of the church.

As for the Necropolis, I hadn't realised that you didn't know that it was no longer a graveyard. The red lines on the map pages are the overlay for when the grounds were changed to Gerards Gardens, and there are no signs of any graves at all. This is opposite Brougham Terrace, the old Register Office and where the brides and grooms used to go for their photographs after the weddings, probably not knowing that they were standing on top of the old graves.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.41455 ... 312!8i6656

To my memory I think there were two Gregsons Wells, one on each side of the road, one has long gone but the second has only recently been completely demolished having been in a very bad state of disrepair for a number of years when somebody apparently began demolition and then it was discovered that it was a listed building (I could be wrong on that) and it was left with just the front walls and trees growing out of the rubble.

[42lingfield]

Mary - thanks for your note. We have looked at google picture - dare I say a little disappointing but that is the way it goes.

I have looked at the St Cyprians posts for the WW1 fallen. As it was Thos & Margaret's marriage church I hoped our family man John Henry Smith might be listed. Did most churches keep a record of their soldiers lost? If so would you know which parish they might have belonged to living as they did at 88 Crown St. - Peter

[MaryA]

It won't be always the case that each church had a memorial, but I'm afraid I'm not sure if there is a definitive list. I think Daggers might know where there are some, I'll ask.

This is a map C1900 which has some churches noted, although not all known, Crown Street is in the top right square.
http://www.liverpool-city-group.com/str ... 901/e3.htm

[daggers]

Hello,
Mary has nudged me into action, and I would have suggested a website 'Merseyside Roll of Honour' which held a large number of names which appear on a range of church memorials across the city. Sadly the site seems to have dropped out of use and is not accessible at present.

The Town Hall has a Hall of Remembrance where over 13000 of the city's First War fallen are named, with rank and regiment, but no addresses or family links. There are three named J.H. Smith, from different units, and over a dozen J. Smiths with no second initial.

If you know the regiment your man served in you might find him listed. This link should take you to the Town Hall's search for names: http://liverpoolcityhalls.co.uk/town-ha ... name=smith

The listing is far from accurate or complete and was compiled during WW1 from family requests.

Daggers

[Bertieone]

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/database.htm

[MaryA]

Bert I think there might be a problem with that link, it just offers to download the page.

Would this one be of any help? http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/obits/ although the same is happening with any links from this page too.

[42lingfield]

Hello everyone. Woe is me! Let me explain. When Mary directed me to the St Cyprians web site I saw references to finding and recording a list of the parishioners who had fallen. A local friend is a WW1 expert. Indeed I have accompanied him to Ypres and the surrounding area for the books he has written. in addition to standing on the front lines, seen where troops came over the hill only to be machine gunned down, he took me to nearly every graveyard for both sides (including one containing I am told the only shot at dawn headstone). He examines closely tablets in churches and village memorials. I thought it would be nice if I got to Liverpool it would be great to see his name in his church. I have seen his name, John Henry Smith, at Pozieres and got a certificate.
My search was to be simple and I am sorry that I have set you on another trail but you are all so kind working on our behalf. Over time you have enhanced our knowledge immensely. Your endeavours are much appreciated and we wish you well. - Peter.

PS. It will not be long before we start new enquiries.

[Bertieone]

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/database.htm

For me, the link works as it has always done, enter name and submit, choose memorial or biography.

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/database.htm

[MaryA]

I'm afraid it doesn't work for either myself or Daggers, and I've tried a couple of different browsers, you must be an honoured one Bert