Evidence of a marriage.

[Roy]

Hi Roy,

Just wondering if the following will take us anywhere,

A marriage in Liverpool, 1841,

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &h=2681012

John Adams, Widower, Mariner
Full Age
Marriage
31 Oct 1841
Liverpool, St Peter
Spouse
Ann Langan, spinster
Fathers
John Adams, Mariner
Edward Langan, Labourer

Possible marriage? 1845, St Thomas, Devon

Edward Putt, Ann Adams

Edit, it appears they did marry, but children born, MMn, Adams.

Thanks Mary,

Roy, this is handy,

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Latin_ ... #Key_Words

Hi bert,

Sorry to give you a headache but I'm grateful for any help.

The father of the Langans is James Langan married to Mary Delaney. The connection to Devon for me is James Putt sailed schooners up to Liverpool apparently with his brothers fro Salcombe Devon. And in those days the South docks were the main docks. Around here is where the O'Neil's , Langans lived and James Langan worked on the docks as what looks like a ships minder. Couldn't quite make it out on the document. The marriage shown I don' tknow about but I'm sure there were a lot of other Langans in the area.

Roy

[Bertieone]

Roy,

I still doubt any marriage took place between James Putt and Jane Langan, at least not in an area were many eyes on here could search.

I know it's inconclusive that Jane Langan was Jane O'Neil, but it seems most likely.

If it was so, at her own sons baptism, 3 April 1856, she would have to be Jane Putt nee Langan, obviously anything else wouldn't have been acceptable.
Later in that year, 11 July, at Edward Putt's baptism, it would be correct to use her married name, O'Neil, at that time.

Do you know Jane Langan father's occupation around 1851? Ships ????????
Would it be worthwhile getting or have you the GRO marriage cert of O'Neil/Langan to compare father's occupation?

[Roy]

Roy,

I still doubt any marriage took place between James Putt and Jane Langan, at least not in an area were many eyes on here could search.

I know it's inconclusive that Jane Langan was Jane O'Neil, but it seems most likely.

If it was so, at her own sons baptism, 3 April 1856, she would have to be Jane Putt nee Langan, obviously anything else wouldn't have been acceptable.
Later in that year, 11 July, at Edward Putt's baptism, it would be correct to use her married name, O'Neil, at that time.

Do you know Jane Langan father's occupation around 1851? Ships ????????
Would it be worthwhile getting or have you the GRO marriage cert of O'Neil/Langan to compare father's occupation?

Bert,

I shall look further into this thanks, see where it takes me.

Regards,

Roy

[luxor]

A Jane Putt was witness at the marriage of Thomas Proctor, Mariner, to Catherine Neal on 5th June 1856. The groom's father was John Proctor, Mariner, and the bride's father was George Neal, Blacksmith. [lan-opc]

[Roy]

A Jane Putt was witness at the marriage of Thomas Proctor, Mariner, to Catherine Neal on 5th June 1856. The groom's father was John Proctor, Mariner, and the bride's father was George Neal, Blacksmith. [lan-opc]

Hello, Thank you for that information, the plot thickens. I've also found Jane Putt acting as witness for her sister Mary Langan marriage to William Wilson 3rd Aug 1861 at St Pauls parish church Liverpool, her father is also present James Langan. Now with your information I now have Jane Langan as Jane Putt in 1856 and 1861. But still no evidence of an actual marriage.

I shall look further into your information.

Many thanks,

Roy

[Roy]

Roy,

I still doubt any marriage took place between James Putt and Jane Langan, at least not in an area were many eyes on here could search.

I know it's inconclusive that Jane Langan was Jane O'Neil, but it seems most likely.

If it was so, at her own sons baptism, 3 April 1856, she would have to be Jane Putt nee Langan, obviously anything else wouldn't have been acceptable.
Later in that year, 11 July, at Edward Putt's baptism, it would be correct to use her married name, O'Neil, at that time.

Do you know Jane Langan father's occupation around 1851? Ships ????????
Would it be worthwhile getting or have you the GRO marriage cert of O'Neil/Langan to compare father's occupation?

Bert,

I shall look further into this thanks, see where it takes me.

Regards,

Roy

Hello Bert,

This is what i have found:-

I've found Jane Putt acting as witness for her sister Mary Langan who marries William Wilson 3rd Aug 1861 at St Pauls parish church Liverpool, her father is also present James Langan.

A Jane Putt was witness at the marriage of Thomas Proctor, Mariner, to Catherine Neal on 5th June 1856. The groom's father was John Proctor, Mariner, and the bride's father was George Neal, Blacksmith. [lan-opc]

So I now have Jane Langan as Jane Putt in 1856 and 1861. But still no evidence of an actual marriage. Also jane Putts first born John Putt is baptised 3 April 1856 at St Mary's Liverpool and the parents are named as Father James Putt mother Jane Putt nee Langan and her sister, Mary Langan, is named as God parent.

I can only assume they did get married before 1856 and I have documentation of the death at sea of a John O'Neill in 1855, but not a full death record of him.

All a little frustrating really but I might have to accept no actual marriage took place, why I don't know. But it seems the Langan family were happy with what ever the arrangement was as was he Catholic church it seems at the time.


marriage.

[Bertieone]

Roy,

With no evidence of a GRO marriage certificate, they must have been "Living over the brush"
a pretence of marriage continued throughout their lives.

It's no surprise that Jane's name appears as Putt on following documentation, the pretence had to be kept up. In the eyes of the law her children would have had the demeaning stamp of "Illegitimate"

Of course they may have chose not to marry, but I still feel she wasn't free to do so.