James Wilson & Mary Wilson (formerly Mary Close)

[42lingfield]

Members have been able to help Neil Crosby who sought information about a public house in Canning Place. I was hoping it would have been the one managed by the above couple but it was not to be. Living 250 miles away I had some research done by Liverpool Library and they found some bits and pieces for me. So can anyone help me fill in some of the missing pieces please.

Mrs Close had the Compass and Anchor in Canning place when they married in 1875. In 1881 they appear again at 24 Byrom Street (would this have been another pub?). In 1891 they are at 51 Scotland Road, the Coach and Horses. In 1885 there appears to be a James Wilson at 127 Stanhope St. Could this be the same man?

In 1844 or soon after James and his first wife Mary moved from the Lake District to Liverpool. What modes of transport might they have used at that time? He appears to have joined the police in 1845. Is there any way I can find out more about his service. I know that he was the keeper of various bridewells during his service. I wonder if he did anything heroic. I have the details of three wives and a number of address.

Any help about James and his life (particularly the pubs) would be most welcome.

[Blue70]

Kelly's Directory 1881 (information likely collected in 1880, James Wilson is a "Manager Public House" at this address on the 1881 Census)

Byrom Street

24 Walker John, wine and spirit vaults

Stanhope Street

127 and 129 Dutton Hen. wine spirit vaults



Blue

[Blue70]

In 1844 or soon after James and his first wife Mary moved from the Lake District to Liverpool. What modes of transport might they have used at that time?

The 1840s saw rapid growth in the construction of railways. Horse drawn coaches regularly travelled short and long distances. Horse drawn "cars" were a common form of transport for the better off people. Some people would travel by steamship from one part of the British Isles to another. Most people though would have walked.


Blue

[Bertieone]

If you have access to British Library Newspapers, a search of Liverpool Licensing Transfer Sessions may help. I can't say its your James Wilson, further research may.

11 Hurst St, January 1885, Mary E Brandon to James Wilson,

11 Hurst St, March 1885, James Wilson to George Griffiths.

171 Burlington St, 1888, Edw Parkinson to James Wilson

April 1885, James Gordon, died at his residence, 127 Stanhope St, Late manager of Cain's Branch, 1 Stanhope St.

Just a thought, James Wilson may have given up his license at Hurst St to move to Stanhope St, perhaps during James Gordon's illness?

1890, 127 Stanhope St, George Randles passed the License on.

[MaryA]

Another thought about the travelling (1853 Trade Directory)

[daggers]

This may be a bit late and not much help but it may save looking up elsewhere; the City of Liverpool Licensing Report Book for 1909 gives these:
1/3 Stanhope St: Coburg Hotel, full licence, Alfred Charles Thorley manager, owners R. Cain & Sons Ltd.
127/9 Stanhope St: United Empire, Fredk Greaves, owner and licensee.
In 1909 24 Byrom St is not listed as a pub, nor is 51 Scotland Road.

This is the only Report Book I have and there is no index to managers/licensees etc.
D

[shirley]

Just as a point of interest, the Coburg is still going strong

[42lingfield]

To - Blue 70, Bertieone, Mary A, daggers and Shirley,

Thank you for your helpful replies which I am working on. I will write again when I have digested the new info as I am sure further questions will arise. I must say I am enjoying this delve into the past.

[42lingfield]

Me again I am afraid. We had a go at the newspaper library via our local library for the licensing transfers as Bert had suggested. In our two one hour sessions allowed by the library we were unable to make much progress. We were looking for the transfer from James Wilson to A N Other. James' wife died at the Coach and Horses in Dec 1891 and he died May '93 at a different address so the transfer must have taken place between these two dates. Can you tell me please how many transfer sessions there were in a year?

At the other end an electoral roll shows James at C & H in 1885 yet Bert's findings have him at Hurst St although this appears to have been very early in the year. But he also appears to have popped up in Burlington St and Stanhope St between what appear to be the C & H years. With all these moves he was either very good or very bad or very accommodating!! Thoughts please.

Peter.

[Bertieone]

Hi Peter,

I'm not sure how many licensing transfer sessions were held or how frequent.
Searching between 1883-1893, Licensing sessions, Liverpool, there's 409 hits containing those words, searching Liverpool Licensing Transfer sessions only produces 14 hits within the same years. James Wilson (name search) only appears at the addresses I've already posted.

What was the address of the Coach And Horses?

[42lingfield]

Bert - thanks for your note. The C & H was at 51 Scotland Rd.

Now that I have had a go at searching the newspaper archive I will keep trying this source. One day I will try to make a pilgrimage to Liverpool to search the archives there.

I hope you will enjoy the New Year.

Peter

[Bertieone]

Peter,
The address doesn't pop up in any of the Licensing Transfer Sessions, etc.

[MaryA]

Not mentioned under either James or Mary Wilson in the 1900 Liverpool street directory.

[luxor]

Liverpool Mercury of Wednesday 20th September 1899 carried an ad for the auction of "valuable licensed public house", "The Coach and Horses", 51, Scotland Road, Liverpool. The yearly tenant was Robert B?ezard (probably Blezard).

[42lingfield]

Thank you everybody. We have recorded all the info you have given us. Never thought about looking at adverts. Now on our jobs to do list.
Peter

[Blue70]

Some information about the location of the former pub/spirit vaults at 51 Scotland Road. This was near the spot where the legendary black street performer Seth Davy was photographed in the early 1900s. The pub is just out of shot it would have been to the right of the "Clothier" shop. The song Seth Davy AKA Whisky on a Sunday was written about him:-

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showth ... ngton-Bush


Blue

[42lingfield]

Blue - much appreciate your help. It is amazing the things that are hidden away! - Peter.