Seeking Knighton and White families from late 1800's

[Sandalwood]

Good Day from Canada !

I'm new here and very pleased to now be able to perhaps join in such fascinating family history discussions and also attempt to find answers to some of my own inquiries.

I am trying to trace Knighton family members related to my father James Albert Knighton who was born in West Derby in 1901, worked on the ships, and died in 1929 aged 27 of peritonitis in Southampton. The Knighton forbears were originally from Arnold, Nottingham in the 1800s.

The name of my father's mother, my grandmother, from a marriage certificate and other documents, is shown to be Charlotte White born about 1869 to 1872 in Liverpool (west Derby I believe but I have no birth certificate for her). The marriage to James Knighton (my grandfather) took place '22 July,1891 at St, Aidan's parish church in Liverpool. Her father is cited as Alfred White, a carpenter. Charlotte also had a sister named Mary Ellen White (married to William Carpenter 1886). Mary Ellen may have really been a cousin since her father is cited on a marriage document as being named Patrick, not Alfred).

Charlotte and Mary Ellen were both born around 1869, the Whites were a Catholic family. Charlotte's husband, James Knighton, was not, at that time at least, a catholic, I believe, since the baptism certificate of their first child bears the note “Of mixed religion” -- all the children were raised in the roman catholic church, Eliza, Arthur, James Albert, and Ellen. One or two other children died very young.

Unfortunately for my own now grown up children who want to know
I never knew of the Knighton or White families until a few years ago -- or the name of my father -- I am now 86 years old so time is getting short to make more enquiries ! I do have more info and have done extensive research but only 1901 Census records show entries for Charlotte and James and the 1911 Census shows 3 of the children living with their aunt Mary Ellen Carpenter – I find nothing more on Charlotte and James after 1901 and nothing on Alfred or Patrick White.

I am grateful to this Family History site for the opportunity to post this rather long dissertation, all comments, suggestions, advice would be most welcome.

Thank you, Jim Robinson.
(No, surname is not Knighton but it should be!)

[Blue70]

Hi Jim

Welcome to the forum. Let’s start off with James’ RC baptism:-

Name: Jacobus Knighton
Birth Date: 4 Dec 1901
Baptism Date: 18 Dec 1901
Parish: St Michael RC Liverpool
Father's name: Jacobi Knighton
Mother's name: Charolettae White
Address: 30 Cottenham Street
God Mother: Maria Carpenter


Lamb Street is mentioned on the Banns:-

Banns: St Aidan, Kirkdale, Lancs.
James Knighton - Lamb St
Charlotte White - 113 Lamb St
First Reading: 7 Jun 1891; Read By: J. W. Welsh
Second Reading: 14 Jun 1891; Read By: F. S. Lester
Third Reading: 21 Jun 1891; Read By: J. W. Welsh
Notes: 21/7/1891
Register: Banns 1879 - 1893, Page 87, Entry 413
Source: LDS Film 1546107


Charlotte at Lamb Street Kirkdale on 1891 Census:-

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:73NN-VMM


Blue

[Bertieone]

Hi Jim and welcome,

No doubt you have the following,


Name:
James Knighton , 24, 106 Lamb St, Liverpool
Birth
1869
Notts

1893
Port of Registry:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name:
Louisianian
Official Number:
99322

UK, Royal Navy
James Knighton
Birth
9 Aug 1869
Birth Place:
St Mary's, Nottingham
Service number:
128091
First Service Date:
22 Aug 1884
First Ship Served On:
Impregnable
Last Service Date:
3 May 1886
Last Ship Served On:
Caroline


Medals,
James Knighton
Birth Date:
1870
Birth Place:
Nottingham
Year Issued:
1914-1925
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/D8045520

[MaryA]

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum. The guys have made a good start with some information there, you can confirm whether it's right or not.

Just to fill in some more of the family details there are other baptisms to James and Charlotte (Gulielmus being the Latin for William)

Gulielmus Knighton 10 Nov 1892 28 Nov 1892 St Alphonsus (Alphonsi) Godmother Maria Helena Carpenter
Elisabeth Knighton 18 Jun 1894 25 Jun 1894 St Alphonsus (Alphonsi) Godmother Maria Helena Barber
Joannes Albertus Knighton 25 Nov 1899 3 Dec 1899 Sacred Heart Godparents Thomas Canning and Maria Helena Carpenter
Jacobus Knighton 4 Dec 1901 18 Dec 1901 St Michael Godmother Maria Carpenter
Helena Knighton 10 Nov 1903 20 Nov 1903 Sacred Heart Godmother Maria Helena Carpenter

The church of St Alphonsus being in Kirkdale fits in well with the address of Lamb Street given by Bert and Blue above.

Mary Ellen Carpenter would be useful to research, she is so prominent in their lives that I would imagine she is related.

1886 CARPENTER William married WHITE Mary E West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool - meaning they probably married in an RC church.

Sorry, just realised I'd duplicated information you already had above.

[luxor]

An Ellen Knighton married William T Smith in West Derby in 1924:

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/informat ... 1470077884

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/informat ... 1470077884

[Bertieone]

Is it possible a mistake has been made recording Charlotte's father at her wedding?

Marriage, 1856, St Patrick,
Patrick White
Charlotte Trainor
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &h=1044362

1861,
RG9 P2702 F37 P2
Upper Mann Street, Liverpool,
Patrick White, 1829, Liverpool, Carpenter,
Charlotte White, wife, 1831, Ireland
Children............

1867, Baptism, Our Lady of Mount Carmel



http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &h=1226607

[Bertieone]

Registration for above baptism


Births Sep 1867

White, Charlotte W. Derby 8b 296

[Sandalwood]

Wow ! that was quick . . . many thanks to Blue, Bert, MaryA and anyone who took the time on my behalf to help uncover the mysteries of my long forgotten and unknown family.

It will take me a few hours to digest the information supplied and I would then like to get back to you with my further thoughts and, no doubt, a follow up question or two based on what I'm learning -- and the data offered here does confirm some of my own research -- and other data helps round out some of what I suspected.

I'm sure you all have had the thrill that I experienced when finding out about my origins. I'm beginning to think that Charlotte holds the key if I could fill in the gaps in her life -- she does not seem to have existed before and after the period 1891 to 1901 -- except possibly the 1867 baptism uncovered by Bert.

Thank you all -- Jim R.

[Sandalwood]

Hello again,
I am still perusing the data members have supplied to me and would like to ask a question regarding Bert's post about James Knighton (he would be my father's father).

There is a brief entry in Bert's post starting off
1893
Port of Registry:

Q: Am I correct in assuming that is a detail about a vessel (Louisianian) that he served on ? And that it was a merchant navy ship not a Royal Navy vessel?

There are then 2 other references to James Knighton, the first showing that he served in the Royal Navy for 2 years, from age 15 to 17 years, I assume that would be called serving as a cadet, probably part time such with the Scouts or Air cadets, requiring attendance one night a week, marching in parades and similar activities to instill discipline and responsibility in the lives of young boys – rather than as recruiting for the regular navy.

The other reference is to Medals – apparently issued 1914 -1925 --- they could have been regarding merchant navy service, operating in war zones. But with a 1970 birth cited, maybe not “our” Knighton – seems every Knighton family had a James in it.

Have you possibly seen a reference to an initial or second name I wonder, there was a death of a James W. Recorded in 1927 I believe.

The material obtained through this Family History site has provoked a lot of deep thought on my part and I feel now that I have got as much as I'm likely to get on my Liverpool forebears -- which is O.K.

Thank you for that, Jim R.

[Bertieone]

Yes Jim, the Louisianian was merchant, having the Lamb St address was the connection.
I believe the Impregnable was a training ship, not sure about the Caroline.

I don't know and can't advance on who the James Knighton, RN, was.