Parish Registers

[MaryA]

OK this isn't an official notification or anything, just hoping to be a bit informative.

Whilst on the subject of "missing" parish registers. Just between you and me there may be many other Registers hiding away in churches, I know at least All Saints in Childwall have Burial Registers which they allowed me to check and find my ancestors - and very reluctantly photograph just that one portion of the page whilst covering the other entries, and this date was 1805.

I was prompted to post this because of a comment made https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 24#p121640 and it did make me wonder if the RO had actually had all the Registers in their possession at the time Ancestry did their scanning. They certainly wouldn't have been refused a couple of years in amongst the rest, so either Ancestry missed them (or perhaps have mistranscribed and mislabelled them - you never know they could be attached to another churches entries) or just perhaps the RO didn't have possession of the registers themselves at that time.

Don't take any of the above as gospel as it is just some of my thinking, but what comes next is fact.

The RC Diocese have issued an edict that all their registers are closed for 70 years. My calculation would make that 1946. This shouldn't make a great deal of difference to what is available online for Liverpool as most RC marriages, baptisms and confirmations finish before 1921, but what it may have an impact on is the burials as entries for Our Lady of Immaculate Conception continue until 1987, Yew Tree until 1965 and Ford until 1981.

Where it will make an impact is of course in the Record Offices - and this is not just Liverpool but will be the whole country - as all the Baptisms, Marriages and Confirmations from that date will no longer be available to us. Don't blame the RO, they certainly wouldn't be in favour of anything that is going to cause them more work, but they will have to follow these orders and the more recent Registers they are going to have to cut out of their microfilms, change the online catalogues and also the index files.

It's just occurred to me that they may not even be allowed to let us have access to the original Registers in the Reading Room, I don't have the answer to that.

I can only hope that the Diocese are lenient with burials as they only concern deaths and not living people and allow them to remain online or available in the ROs.

[Blue70]

It'll be interesting to see if Ancestry take off some of the RC burial records. These records are available beyond the Record Office and Ancestry so I would think full access to basic burial information would continue from other sources if the Record Office and Ancestry withdraws some of them.


Blue

[BarbaraW]

The reason I asked about missing Parish Registers is that I know some years for St Oswald's, Malpas are missing after emailing Cheshire Record Office last year. For some reason I thought Ancestry got the microfilm images from the LDS church as they are both based in Utah and Ancestry was started by some of their members.

Does that transcription website by Patrick somebody ?? the Liverpool Hibernia place have all the RC records? Could that be "got at" by the church or does the information now belong to him? Sorry to be so mis-informed but is there a BT equivalent to RC records?

[Blue70]

Patrick still has some information online but he's not active now in helping people and some of his stuff is no longer online. There are microfiche copies of some records out there and there are generous people providing look-ups who could help fill the void if recent records are withdrawn.


Blue

[BarbaraW]

What's the reason for the withdrawal of the records if they're already in the public domain?

[BarbaraW]

OK this isn't an official notification or anything, just hoping to be a bit informative.

Whilst on the subject of "missing" parish registers. Just between you and me there may be many other Registers hiding away in churches, I know at least All Saints in Childwall have Burial Registers which they allowed me to check and find my ancestors - and very reluctantly photograph just that one portion of the page whilst covering the other entries, and this date was 1805.

I was prompted to post this because of a comment made https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 24#p121640 and it did make me wonder if the RO had actually had all the Registers in their possession at the time Ancestry did their scanning. They certainly wouldn't have been refused a couple of years in amongst the rest, so either Ancestry missed them (or perhaps have mistranscribed and mislabelled them - you never know they could be attached to another churches entries) or just perhaps the RO didn't have possession of the registers themselves at that time.

Don't take any of the above as gospel as it is just some of my thinking, but what comes next is fact.

The RC Diocese have issued an edict that all their registers are closed for 70 years. My calculation would make that 1946. This shouldn't make a great deal of difference to what is available online for Liverpool as most RC marriages, baptisms and confirmations finish before 1921, but what it may have an impact on is the burials as entries for Our Lady of Immaculate Conception continue until 1987, Yew Tree until 1965 and Ford until 1981.

Where it will make an impact is of course in the Record Offices - and this is not just Liverpool but will be the whole country - as all the Baptisms, Marriages and Confirmations from that date will no longer be available to us. Don't blame the RO, they certainly wouldn't be in favour of anything that is going to cause them more work, but they will have to follow these orders and the more recent Registers they are going to have to cut out of their microfilms, change the online catalogues and also the index files.

It's just occurred to me that they may not even be allowed to let us have access to the original Registers in the Reading Room, I don't have the answer to that.

I can only hope that the Diocese are lenient with burials as they only concern deaths and not living people and allow them to remain online or available in the ROs.

I've just come across a baptism register on Anc where it quite clearly says at the top of the page Holy Trinity, Wavertree for 1880 but it's been transcribed as Wavertree, St Bridget. Of course this wouldn't make any difference in a name search but if you were doing a particular church search it would. Food for thought Mary after your post last night.

[MaryA]

Hesitate to say it but ........ told you so

As for the records already being in the public domain, they would appear to think that they shouldn't have been but I honestly don't have the answer.

[MaryA]

A bit of an update as Roger Hull gave a talk this evening about the Archives and of course the databases held by Ancestry and Findmypast were mentioned. At this point I took the opportunity to ask the question raised by Barbara above about whether the "library" hadn't allowed full access to some of the records, ie gaps in both St Peter's and St Nicholas to say the least.

The answer is apparently that the registers for these two churches were not filmed at the Archives, but taken from those held by the Latter Day Saints, so any omissions should be laid at that door.

Hopefully this will be rectified at some point, but it isn't known when.

[BarbaraW]

Yes I had a feeling that the records were something to do with the LDS I must have read it somewhere in the past, it'd make sense for Anc to use the LDS millions of filmed records rather than starting filming every one from scratch for themselves.

[lynne99]

Does this mean that if I think I have a baptism at St Peter's in a bit that is missing from Lancashire on line PC. then the records office may be able to help?

[MaryA]

If you believe it took place in St Peters but those years are missing then the microfilm will be in the Record Office, however if you ask them to help they may make a charge.

[lynne99]

It is Mary Jane Howard that I have mentioned before. No birth or baptism She was born before the 1851 census (she was aged 2) at 60 Gascoyne St Liverpool. Father Richard Howard, Mother Elizabeth Cowley. I calculate she was born c 1848/9 or 1850 at the latest. Mary Jane was the 6th child (2nd daughter). I can find baptisms for the boys at St Peter's and I have birth certificate for her elder sister, Sarah Ellen, b.1846. The youngest of the family was Margaret b early 1851 (ages 3 months in the census) and her birth was registered. Liverpool 1851 March 1/4 (Howard Margaret Liverpool 20 323 ) Mary Jane's birth does not appear to be recorded nor can I find a baptism.
Lancs On line PC for St Peter's stops at July 1848 and starts again at Jan 1850. Ancestry seems to have them all, but she doesn't come up with a name search. Ideas please
Oh dear, I am on the wrong part of the site. Sorry

[MaryA]

If Ancestry has them all, have you opened an image at the beginning of the year and scrolled through page by page to do a search. If there are none missing then this will be exactly the same as doing this at the RO.

Just had a check and those years do appear to be complete on Ancestry, instead of searching by name, just put St Peter in the keyword, and enter the date of 1 January 1848. If you open one of those entries you should be very near the beginning of the register and work your way through.

[BarbaraW]

Yes do as Mary says, I've found a marriage like this that didn't come up in a name search. Good luck Lynne.

[lynne99]

Thanks both, will do.

[Hilary]

I saw this on the Archdiocese of Birmingham Archives (Roman Catholic)

A decision of the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales, endorsed by the Archbishop of Birmingham, places a 110-year closure period on all sacramental records.

That appears to be an even longer closure period.

[lynne99]

I suppose that is because more people are living longer now.

[MaryA]

a 110-year closure period on all sacramental records.

I hope nobody tells the RO that, the 70 years that they are already aware of is bad enough for us researchers, and also for the staff, without making it worse.