C Of E Marriage & RC Baptism?

[Blue70]

So far I have details of 3 marriages from Liverpool Irish ancestors who I presume were RC. The marriages, Brady/Leacy, Brady/Reid & Holland/Brady all took place at St Nicholas the established C of E church. The families lived in the Great Howard Street area. I'm wondering whether it was common for catholics to marry in this particular C of E church, it being Liverpool Parish Church located at the Pier Head and then baptise the children in an RC church? I'm thinking that I might at some stage get some RC baptismal information when the records are made available.

Col

[42aitch]

Hi Col

If they are early RC marriages, many married in the Established Church i.e. Church of England. They may also have married in the RC church. I have found a few of mine who did this, some of them on the same day and others later.

It was only considered legal if they married in the Established Church as RC marriages were not recognised. What years are you talking about.

Eileen

[Hilary]

Post 1837 it was legal to be married in a Catholic church. The Brady/Leary marriage took place in 1853.

3 marriages taking place in a C of E church would suggest that the people were C of E however I would check both C of E and RC churches in the vicinty of their abode for baptisms of the children.

Ed Officer

[Blue70]

Thanks everyone. The marriages were as follows:-

1853

John Brady, born 1831, County Cavan, Ireland.
Elizabeth Leacy, born 1831, County Wexford, Ireland.

1878

Patrick Brady, born 1858, Liverpool.
Margaret Reid, born 1859, Belfast, Ireland.

1899

Patrick Joseph Holland, born 1879, Liverpool.
Mary Brady, born 1880, Liverpool.


Col

[Blue70]

Since posting this query I've obtained RC baptismal records for some children of the people mentioned in this thread. I asked Liverpool History Projects about this issue of C of E marriage and RC baptism. They said many Catholic couples did marry in C of E churches but they always baptised their children in an RC church. There were a number of possible reasons for this according to LHP:-

"They may have considered marriage to be as much a legal as a religious requirement. Perhaps it was cheaper and easier to get married at a C of E church. At a Catholic church you would have to obtain a 'certificate' (instead of banns) and then pay both the priest and the registrar. At a C of E church three readings of the banns would suffice plus the vicar acted as the registrar.

Catholic couples marrying elsewhere was considered to be such a problem that the church introduced a new marriage law in 1908 making only marriages at Catholic churches valid. It is after this date that the practice of adding the information about subsequent marriages to the baptism entries were introduced. When the marriage parties applied for their baptism details the priest was meant to add the new information but some of them were more efficient than others. The absence of marriage information doesn't mean any particular child didn't marry".

Col

[graleystives]

I know this is an old post but I just wanted to add that my GG Grandparents (McGreavy/Graley though McGraley on the cert) were also RC but married at St Nicholas' Church so this does seem to have been quite common. Their marriage was in 1865.
I was also told that it was a cheaper option and easier.
I later found out that, in my case, the bride was probably pregnant and I wondered if it was quicker to arrange the wedding in the C of E Church.

[Blue70]

Thanks for the reply this was quite an oddity and it puzzled a number of people in various places where I brought up the subject. I now have the baptism records of all of the children of my Great Grandparents Patrick Joseph Holland and Mary Brady who married at St Nicholas C of E Church at the Pier Head in 1899. They were all christened at St Augustine's RC church in Great Howard Street between 1900 and 1920.

Col

[jborrowscale]

I have not read all the messages - but, there was a RC St. Nicholas Church in Liverpool as well........it was Copperas Hill area......
As regards marriages. It depended the date of the marriage, the RC Churches were not registered to marry - so any Catholic had to be married in C/E. I have found whilst researching the Roskell family RC they were all married in C/E in the early 19thc but children baptised RC
I suppose they were like non-conformist - they were not allowed to marry until much later on.
Joan

[jborrowscale]

I have just posted a reply re marriage in C/E / RC The Catholic church were not registered to marry couples - until a certain date, but not sure when. If they did marry in RC the Registrar was always present, and think he did marry them. If they did'nt they had to marry in C/E which generally happened.....but Registrar always there.
There was a St. Nicholas Catholic Church in Liverpool- Copperas Hill area.
I think it was bombed during the war..... There was also St. Peter RC - Seel St. Liverpool a very old Chapel.
Hope this helps
Joan

[jborrowscale]

Re Robert Roskell 1773-1847 I now have a copy of his Will which contains about 12 pages. He lists all his children. I have the 1st 5 pages transcribed so the other pages will take some time.

My tree consists of COWLEY, BORROWSCALE, OAKES, PARRY, WATSON-PARRY; - In Liverpool only.

Joan B.

[Blue70]

Hi Joan

This is quite an old thread, yes there was an RC church called St Nicholas but my Irish Catholic ancestors chose to use the C of E St Nicholas on various occasions for marriages out of convenience. This was after RC churches were allowed to have registered marriages (1837?).


Blue