One of my brick walls - Thomas Henry BANKS

[Hilary]

It looks quite likely to me, he's born before his mother's marriage to Isaac.

[MaryA]

It looks quite likely to me, he's born before his mother's marriage to Isaac.

I think the the same thing, that's what it would normally say.

[BarbaraW]

Apologies for my late reply, flu and all that.

I think I'm still in complete shock that my nan's dad was born in the Workhouse and although she always spoke of her dad with affection I never heard mention of this, is it possible that he wouldn't even know this himself?

How long would his mother have been an inmate for to give birth to Thomas and what was the likely scenario for her to get herself out of this dire situation and back on her feet enough to get married?

I've found a few likely domestic servant girls in the 1871 census and can picture the scene when she finds herself single and pregnant perhaps by one of the male members of the household rather than her "boyfriend" as such, can I narrow it down by the place? ie If you were born in such and such street you went to the main Liverpool Workhouse in Brownlow Hill or if you were born in such and such street you went to Walton Workhouse??

[Blue70]

My great grandmother was born to an unmarried mother at Rice Lane surname was then Atherton later Naylor. I discovered it after finding that her mother and father married two years after her birth. She had the father on her own marriage certificate so whether he was the father or not I'll never know for sure. She was born just before the 1881 census and mother and daughter can't be found in that census.


Blue

[Hilary]

Briefly If you lived within the Liverpool Union you went to Liverpool Workhouse. If you lived within West Derby Union you went to Walton. You mihpght wish to look at www.workhouses.org

Your Great grandfather may or may not have known he was illegitimate. He would only have known if he was told or if he ever saw his birth certificate which he probably didn't. His mother married soon after his birth I think. Did he take the surname of his wife's husband? If he did I think that could well be an indication that it was actually his father. You often find the use of stepson so was your ancestor referred to as son or stepson on census?

There may have been reasons why the marriage occurred after the birth - the girl's father may have refused permission until the girl was 21. There could have been opposition due to different religions or other reasons.

I doubt she would have stayed long in the workhouse, she would have admitted herself and discharged herself. She was obviously going to have some support as she took her child with her and didn't leave him in the workhouse.

He may have been born before the marriage but was he brought up within the family? If he was he was probably much loved within his family. If he was brought up within an orphanage he would have had a very different life.

I have at least 2 illegitimate children within my family and a couple of " we just got the marriage in before the birth". Does it shock me, "no it doesn't" life hasn't changed much. In one case the child was brought up by the mother's husband but always kept her birth name and was always his stepdaughter. My granny had an illegitimate baby and I was always told, "don't you have an illegitimate baby". The only trouble was at 11 or 12 I had know idea what illegitimate meant or how you got a baby!

[BarbaraW]

I must sincerely apologise Hilary as for some reason I've only just seen your lengthy reply.

I have tried following up the Orford Barracks link to no avail so am going with the scenario you clever lot have given here. Thomas Henry was born Miller and took up the name of his stepfather (or real father) Banks. I wasn't shocked that he was illegitimate, it was being born in the Workhouse which always paints in my mind such a grim picture. I think I've watched "Oliver" too many times.