hawley family

[wkhastings]

Thank you so much MaryA. I am most grateful for your assistance and that of anyone else who might be able to help. Looking back through this thread, I have found some incredibly useful information. I think the Joseph Easton who married Elizabeth Mather (the marriage witnessed by Elizabeth's sister Mary Ann Mather) is Joseph Hesting who witnessed Mary Ann Mather's marriage to Thomas Hawley. I suspect the different spelling is the result of phonetic transcription by the marriage celebrants who transcribed the accent differently. Only Elizabeth Mather could write her name. Elizabeth and Mary Ann Mather are both said to have been born in Woolwich Kent in he 1841 census, which is consistent with their father's military service. Elizabeth named her fist born Mary Ann, no doubt after Elizabeth's sister. All three families, that is Thomas, Mary Ann and Peter Hawley; Elizabeth and Joseph Hasting and their three children; and John (the Chelsea Pensioner) and his wife Mary Mather (parents of Mary Ann and Elizabeth Mather) are all living at Boundary Street, North Side, Corner, No 1 Court in the 1851 census. Is this building still there I wonder. I think I'm on the right track, and would be grateful for any assistance in pushing back the Mather and Hastings (or Hasting or Hesting or Easton) lines.

[MaryA]

I'm sorry, the lady who wrote the book only wrote about WWI soldiers, so I didn't get the information from her.

I'm reprimanding myself for not having given a source to the information but I can't come across it again, sorry.

[Hilary]

Please see my post of earlier this morning it's on page 1. John's Pension records are on Find My Past.

[wkhastings]

Thank you for this. There seem to be three records for John Mather in the Find My Past collection. I suspect his is the first record, as it says he is born in "Goburn" in Lancashire and he is in the second battalion of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. If it is him, and he was discharged in 1832, his daughters would have been only 12 and 13 years old. They were still living with him at the age of 20 in the 1841 census. The reference to his lame leg mentioned by MaryA seems to be in the next record, which is also a John Mather, but he's in a different battalion (the tenth), and both attested and discharged on different dates, so I wonder if this is the same man. I also cannot seem to find all the references to his indifferent nature or the actual pension he received. All help gratefully received!

[wkhastings]

Not to worry MaryA. What's found once can be found again! Especially with all the wonderful assistance on this forum.

[Hilary]

The first record is your John and there are a number of pages in the record you just have to go to the image and then keep going onto the next image. The bit about indifferent character is there and plenty more.

[wkhastings]

Hilary, Thank you. I am new at this. Please forgive my obvious questions. The record is very full, but the mystery of why it refers to only one child, when the oldest would only have been 13, remains. Perhaps 13 was deemed to be adult.

[retiringtype]

The record is very full, but the mystery of why it refers to only one child

Perhaps the other children were already "up north". We may never know.

The fascinating thing about this record is the detail: a pass for a canal journey from London to Warrington, with 3 days subsistence. It illustrates how important and useful the canal network was as a passenger service, not just for carrying freight, before the advent of the railway.

[Hilary]

I suspect that the 13 year old was deemed old enough to be in work and therefore not a child or as Retiring Type suggests had already gone north or was elsewhere.

[MaryA]

Whew, I'm glad somebody found the entry, strange where you found it as I didn't think I had a subs to FMP at the time, but if that's where I discovered it, makes sense that I didn't give it as a source - as we all know, all data comes from the National Archives!

[wkhastings]

I am amazed at how quickly people come to my aid here! Thank you. Imagine travelling by canal from London to Warrington! There are two more mysteries:

The first is what happened to him. I assumed John Mather's death would have been recorded on his service record when they stopped paying his pension, but there is nothing about his death there, and I cannot find him (yet) beyond the 1851 census. I cannot find a record of his marriage either, which would give leads to their parents.

And that leads to the second: where did he come from. I've got him in the 1841 census living in Wigan with his wife Mary (said to have been born in Ireland) and their two daughters, nine years after his discharge, and in the 1851 census, still with Mary, living in Kirkdale, in the same house with their now married daughters, but no earlier and no later.

All help gratefully received. I'll keep looking and post any updates I find.

[MaryA]

a record of his marriage either, which would give leads to their parents.

Just need to say that as he was married prior to the beginning of Civil Registration in 1837 the entry of marriage won't give any clues to their parents, the registers at that time give a minimum of information, sometimes mentions whether they are bachelor and spinster, sometimes what his occupation is, and sometimes whether they were "of this parish" or not, but that only refers to at the time of the marriage, not where his origins were.

[wkhastings]

I didn't know that! This is getting harder and harder. What do people rely on to trace ancestors before 1837? I suppose churchyard gravestones would be one option. Once again all help appreciated!

[Hilary]

As his wife was born in Ireland maybe John married whilst stationed in Ireland? The other area perhaps to look would be Woolwich Kent (now under London) as that was the home of the Royal Artillery. It would also be worth looking for the children's baptisms, if they were RC the mother's maiden name may be on the entry. Where were they born?

The papers on FMP are John's pension papers, his service records may give more information. It might be worth contacting the National Archives to see if they exist.

[Hilary]

Could this be Elizabeth's baptism at Woolwich Parish Church
Betsy daughter of John and Mary Mather abode Royal Artillery Barracks john a gunner in the RA Betsy born 25 October 1821 christened 28 November 1821?

Image on Ancestry.

Mary Ann at the same church born May 30 1819 christened 6 June 1819 and on the same day John Thomas born 1 June 1815 christened 6 June 1819.

If these children are correct I suspect you are looking for a marriage around 1814.

[wkhastings]

Forgive me if I say OMG! Hilary, you rock! This is them. Elizabeth Mather's gravestone in the Oshawa Union Cemetery in Ontario, Canada says she was 80 years and 29 days (I think - the stone is worn) old when she died on 24 November 1900. That would make her birthday 25 October 1820, not 1821, but she and her sister Mary Ann were both born in Woolwich to John and Mary Mather and he was a gunner in the Royal Artillery. I didn't know about John Thomas, but I reckon you've struck gold! I will keep looking for John and Mary's parents, and find out what happened to their older brother. Thank you so much.

[wkhastings]

I've just noticed that John was sent to France as part of the British occupation after the fall of Napoleon on 14 June 1815, just 13 days after the birth of his son!

[wkhastings]

I have found Mary Ann's and John Thomas's christening records on Ancestry, but for the life of me I cannot find Elizabeth/ Betsy's, even when I enter the precise birth and christening dates.

[Bertieone]

I have found Mary Ann's and John Thomas's christening records on Ancestry, but for the life of me I cannot find Elizabeth/ Betsy's, even when I enter the precise birth and christening dates.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=1

[Hilary]

There is a John Mather born 1815 recorded in Woolwich and Plumstead in the censuses. I can see him in the 1851, 1861, 1881 and 1891. In the 1851 he states he is a Chelsea Pensioner so must have been in the Army. He has a son John Thomas born 19 Dec 1842 christened 8 Jan 1843 at Woolwich Parish church parents John and Sarah. He is said to be a servant Royal Military Academy. I suspect that this John is John Thomas and that he followed his father into the RA.

On one census he states Waterford as his birthplace. The GRO Regimental Birth index records the following
John Mather born 1815 Waterford RA volume 24 page 5 if you bought the birth certificate from the GRO it should give his mother's name. I suspect John Mather marries Mary in Ireland but I can't see the marriage in the GRO Regimental Marriage Index.

I can see Mary A Mather 1819 ( John's sister) and the John Thomas born 1842 (John's son)

I hope the above makes sense and good luck.