One of my brick walls - Thomas Henry BANKS

[MaryA]

specify only if the mother is Sarah Miller?

and ALSO that no father was named.

[BarbaraW]

Oh Mary so I say this too, please supply only if the mother is Sarah Alice (do I mention the middle name?) Miller and no father is named?

[MaryA]

Well I think you should as that's the only evidence you have, I would never include middle names though as she may or may not have given it.

I believe it would be highly unlikely that a father will be named, otherwise her surname wouldn't be Miller, but I would be hesitant about stating that there would be none. Difficult to put too many criteria though.

[BarbaraW]

Well I think you should as that's the only evidence you have, I would never include middle names though as she may or may not have given it.

I believe it would be highly unlikely that a father will be named, otherwise her surname wouldn't be Miller, but I would be hesitant about stating that there would be none. Difficult to put too many criteria though.

So I should order both and say only supply if mother is Sarah Miller? I know it's cheaper to go via the GRO but do you or anybody else think Liverpool would be better?

I have spent so much time on this family and I think this and my other brick wall are the reason I have packed this in so many times as I just get so frustrated with it all not being able to get past 2 g. grandfather's. When I can get them out of Liverpool I have so much more success as they all came from much smaller places.

I've noticed there are quite a few Banks' families in Woolton and for some reason that niggles at my brain, regarding Isaac all we have is a marriage certificate that says carter but I have no idea of where he was born. I've had saved for some years an Alice Banks with 2 sons Thomas and George living in Wilfer Street, husband at sea on the 1881 census. Since yesterday I've been researching Isaac Banks who is on the 1861 census in Folly Vale, Little Woolton aged 9 with father John, carter, and mother Hannah. Not much luck on other censuses though, however in 1882 there is an Isaac Banks, right age, born in Woolton on the Liverpool crew lists on Ancestry. 4 records all for the same year, nothing for previous years though it does say on the first one he was signing up from another ship Andalusian (from memory) but that ship doesn't appear in the lists.

I am wondering if Alice in Wilfer Street is the same Sarah Alice that married Isaac Banks on the marriage certificate that MaryA found? Writing this out I'm now wondering if I should specify on the BC "only supply if mother is Sarah or Alice or Sarah Alice Miller?"

[MaryA]

If it were me I wouldn't muddy the waters by including a middle name, but you do have to make your own decision.

Do far as a family out of the area you expect is concerned, it does no harm to create a tree, I know you use a software package, research it and keep it to see if there are any clues, and even if not immediately helpful you may in the future discover that they are related as cousins perhaps? And it always gives you a little more research to do which is always fun.

[BarbaraW]

What about if I was to make 2 separate applications, has anybody ever done this before? One with mother Sarah and one with mother Alice using both the references for the 2 Miller boys?

I've done a little separate tree away from my other tree, I'd long forgotten that Woolton came under Prescot as I always think of it as Liverpool 25 or 26......

[MaryA]

If you are going to put that sort of criteria you will need to check that the GRO reference is not known.

[Alison C]

Could this be Isaac in the 1871 census?:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGB-H9B

His father John is an Ag Labourer which is similar to Gardener which was what Isaac gave as his father's profession on his marriage certificate.

Re: Alice vs Sarah Alice in the 1881 census. She may have been known by her middle name so that was what was put on the census. It would be interesting to see if there is a baptism for her younger son George Banks which would give her husband's name.

Alison

[BarbaraW]

Thank you Alison I will follow that up, though I had linked Isaac with another father John, Ag Lab, mother Hannah it seems like there were more than a few from and in Woolton.

I appreciate your help and I didn't know that the IGI gave you the censuses for free!!!

[BarbaraW]

If you are going to put that sort of criteria you will need to check that the GRO reference is not known.

I think I will take it slowly Mary and order them in one at a time, who knows I might strike lucky first time, at least with criteria you do get your money back if you have it wrong......

[BarbaraW]

Just to update you (months later!!) as I anxiously await the birth cert of Thomas Henry MILLER. I asked for it from the GRO and said his mother should be Sarah and/or Alice.

In the meantime I have been doing some digging on Henry Miller (born Allerton), father of Sarah Alice and found his marriage to Sarah BANKS (born Woolton) in 1847 at St Nicholas.

It's all become rather overwhelming with so many people with the same Christian names and so many BANKS' in Woolton and not as many detailed records as I would like on Ancestry, though plenty from the IGI, so until I get the birth certificate I will put it on hold otherwise I am just wasting my time......

Does anybody here have a link to what Woolton was like back in the olden days? I know it wasn't quite the posh place we think of it being nowadays and I do remember reading many years ago it had quite a poor community. It seems like all these Banks' men worked in the quarries so I'd be interested to hear more about that as my paternal line were all slate quarrymen in North Wales.

[MaryA]

Here's a site with a variety of subjects about Woolton, not a great deal but mention of the quarry http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/woolton ... BTTTTTTTTT
However if you google you will find quite a few more that could be useful.

[BarbaraW]

Could this be Isaac in the 1871 census?:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGB-H9B

His father John is an Ag Labourer which is similar to Gardener which was what Isaac gave as his father's profession on his marriage certificate.

Re: Alice vs Sarah Alice in the 1881 census. She may have been known by her middle name so that was what was put on the census. It would be interesting to see if there is a baptism for her younger son George Banks which would give her husband's name.

Alison

There is Alison, Isaac!!

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2196/ ... dit/record

[BarbaraW]

Here's a site with a variety of subjects about Woolton, not a great deal but mention of the quarry http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/woolton ... BTTTTTTTTT
However if you google you will find quite a few more that could be useful.

Thank you Mary. I think maybe Mike Royden has some stuff on his site, off for a scout and to look at your link too.

[BarbaraW]

Well the birth certificate has arrived and it's not for the area I was expecting at all.

10 Oct 1872 Thomas Henry MILLER (no father) mother Alice MILLER. Born in Walton Workhouse.

[Hilary]

Walton was the West Derby Union Workhouse. Woolton was within the Childwall Parish and part of the West Derby Union so it would have been quite likely/possible for someone to go there if they were thrown out of their job or home to have an illegitimate baby.

[BarbaraW]

Thank you for that info Hilary as I thought Walton was way off the mark for Woolton etc.

Now on the cover sheet that came with the BC is this:

CHECKING POINT/REFERENCE: AFN = HENRY MS = MILLER

Does anybody know what this means?

[Hilary]

Just a guess

AFN alternative first name

MS mother's surname or maybe maiden name

[BarbaraW]

Thank you Hilary that would make sense.

[BarbaraW]

Does anybody have an opinion on this Birth Certicate as I am feeling a bit meh.