Looking for Cecilia Burns in 1881 census

[Glenys]

I have searched all over Ancestry for Cecilia Burns and her parents in 1881.

In the 1891 she is a lodger, aged 13 with her younger brother, Frederick, aged 10, living in Ashton-in-Makerfield. They were both born in Liverpool. He is my cousin's paternal grandfather who he knew was orphaned.

On Frederick's marriage certificate he gives his father's name as Peter, a seaman.

I can't confirm that any births of Frederick will be the correct one and thought that if I found Cecilia aged 3 in 1881 then I'd have both parents' names.

Has anybody got any ideas?

[MaryA]

I hoped to have some luck with baptisms but didn't. The strange thing is I don't see a birth entry, have tried Burns/Byrnes etc.

Still looking

[MaryA]

I know this doesn't fit properly, but just connecting Peter's occupation and a Frederick in the family makes me want to suggest you put this entry on file for the time being as I didn't find them in 1891.
RG11; Piece: 3630; Folio: 61; Page: 9
29 Lionel Street, Liverpool
Peter Burns 30 Seaman, Mary 26, Bridget 5, Mary 3 weeks, Charles 7 and Frederick 3

[Glenys]

Yes, Mary, that's why I said I'd been all over Ancestry before asking on here.

I'd seen the family at Lionel Street but as Cecilia aged 3 wasn't there and the Frederick I'm wanting was only born in 1881, I've made a note but I'm not hopeful.

Thanks for confirming I've not missed anything.

[Bertieone]

Perhaps no more than a coincidence,

Following on from Mary's find,

A Frederick Burns, Catholic Baptism 1878, parents Peter Burns/ Maria/Mary Burns, nee, Williams.

The Ashton in Makerfield census, 1891, have a Charles Williams with them along with Cecilia and Frederick.

Peter Burns, Mary Williams marriage, 1875, St Peter, Liverpool

[MaryA]

Good Bert, you took it further than I did, I should have followed it through.

There have been many discussions about the name Bridget - it often seems to be either a nickname or pet name, so perhaps she is Cecilia.

[Bertieone]

Or a preferred middle name, neither registered or baptised with.

Do we know they are definitely siblings?

[Glenys]

Thanks, Bert, for looking for this.

I agree that this would seem to be the only family with a Frederick whose father is Peter but I was presuming (perhaps wrongly) that the ages were correct. I had tried finding a baptism but you were obviously luckier than me at finding that.
I know that they were a catholic family, so that helps.

As Cecilia and Frederick are both classed as lodgers on the 1891 Census in Ashton and born in Liverpool, I had again presumed that they were siblings but maybe Charles was also a sibling, born before Peter & Mary (Maria)'s marriage.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep thinking about this and if I find anything further, I'll let you all know.

[Glenys]

Hi again, Bert, Could you please tell me where you found that baptism? I've tried Ancestry and can't find it and I'm wondering if I'm looking in the wrong place.

[MaryA]

Card Catalogue on Ancestry, Use "Liverpool" in the keyword box. Then choose Catholic Baptisms.

Took place in Holy Cross, don't forget RC baptisms latincise names, so you are looking for
Fredricus Burns Birth 13 Dec 1877 Baptism 9 Jan 1878 Holy Cross Father Petri Burns, Mother Maria Burns

Best to use fred* when searching

[Bertieone]

Card Catalogue on Ancestry, Use "Liverpool" in the keyword box. Then choose Catholic Baptisms.

Took place in Holy Cross, don't forget RC baptisms latincise names, so you are looking for
Fredricus Burns Birth 13 Dec 1877 Baptism 9 Jan 1878 Holy Cross Father Petri Burns, Mother Maria Burns

Best to use fred* when searching

As above and link,
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=5

[Glenys]

Thanks, Bert, for pointing me in the direction of the Card Catalogue to get into Liverpool Baptisms, etc..

Now I'm just wondering if I could be really cheeky and ask if anyone could do a lookup of the marriage of Peter Burns to Mary Williams at St. Peter's Church in 1875 so that I would have their parents' names. I would then be able to check the Census for 1871 for their families and birthplaces.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Bertieone]

Peter Burns, 23
Single
Marriage Date:
26 Sep 1875
St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Fathers,
Peter Burns, William Williams
Spouse
Mary Williams, aged 20, Single

England's select Marriages, no occupations or addresses available.

[MaryA]

England's select Marriages, no occupations or addresses available.

Anything more would have to wait until a visit to the RO and if it is me it may well be after Christmas. I'll put it on my list anyway but if you get it before or if the above is enough then let me know.

[Glenys]

Thank you to your both, Mary & Bert for your help. You've pointed me in the direction of parts of Ancestry I didn't know existed.
I think I'll leave the research at this stage now as there seems to be several Peters who could have been the right ones and this has been a favour for a cousin. I want to say I've finished it so I can put it away and enclose it with a Christmas card.

Thank you again and have a lovely Christmas.

[MaryA]

[Glenys]

Thank you so much Mary for taking the time to look this up for me. I'll now have to work backwards with the Census to see if I can connect the family to the Census.

[MaryA]

Given you more work to do, haven't I