Stella Bewley-Gareth Fletcher

[Bertieone]

Eliza may well have been Catholic, either by no choice of her own, baptised and brought up that way, or by her own choice and decided to follow that path. Her father George was C of E, baptised at St Peter's, can't find Catherine's. However, if Catherine was of the Catholic faith, it wouldn't stop her and George being married at St Peter's.
Its possible neither of the parents were Catholic and Eliza decided to become one late on in life.

[gf27]

Bert,
Thanks for all your efforts. Me thinks I will have chat with Stella's son Rob Bewley. If Eliza was being encouraged not to marry Alfred Fletcher, Eliza's parents were being a bit hypocritical. I have a photo of Alfred and Eliza on their wedding day. Eliza is wearing a gold pendant that was given to her as a bribe not to marry Alfred, Obviously didn't work or else I wouldn't telling you this.
Bert any of your comments may be correct, but I am pretty Shure that Eliza was not a practicing catholic, well not after marrying Alfred.
Anyway I think the forum has more than covered my original request.
Stirling efforts all round. Thank you.
Gareth.

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

I am a great grandson of Mary Johnson (1888-1962), sister of Eliza mentioned above. Mary married Frederick Charles Coulthurst (1887-1949) and had four children Emily Coulthurst (1912-1953), Frederick Charles Coulthurst (1914-1998), Reginald Coulthurst (1916-1964) and Ernest Coulthurst (1921-1991).

I have been variously hacking away at this family for quite some time, most of which is now on Ancestry in a public tree. The brothers and sisters, (of which I have found 10, the 1911 census suggests there are two more who would have died young) were baptised into the Catholic church, Mary is said to have switched to C of E before marriage, then switched back after his death in 1949. I very much doubt they were practicing in particular.

Have a good look at that in the first instance, there may be progress from there...there are still lines of enquiry and such.

Also, I have a couple of pictures showing Mary but they're not very good. There are pictures of Sarah around also... I am very much looking forward to seeing this picture of Eliza from the wedding, that's fantastic! Cheers, Dave C

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the Forum. Gareth is a member of the Society and a current member of the forum, so I trust he will receive notification that you have responded on his post.

If for any reason he doesn't reply, please let me know and I'll see if I can contact him some other way.

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

I myself didn't get a notification that there'd been a reply so perhaps not everybody does, I don't know. Gareth is clearly very interested by our shared family, so by all means feel free to give him a prod. Thus far the 12 siblings of interest are..

Eliza Jane Johnston (20/12/1879-1881)
James Johnston (23/11/1881-????) possibly 1961
Catherine Johnston (26/04/1883-1950)
Eliza Johnston (04/06/1886-1945)
Mary Johnston (22/03/1888-1962)
George Johnston (26/06/1889-1917)
Richard Johnston (06/10/1890-1892)
Andrew Johnston (21/05/1892-????)
Robert Johnston (31/01/1894-1944)
Sarah Ann Johnston (26/04/1895-1952)

As with other branches of my ancestry, the 1911 census indicates a total of 12 children, 8 alive (suggesting Andrew and James are alive in 1911, two others not shown have died). Since I have found baptismal records for all of these children, showing their baptism at aged 2 weeks I would suspect the other two lived for less than two weeks. I do wonder what happens with still births, would there be a burial? Any trace of them? With Andrew and James the plan is to leave it until the 1939 Registration records become available, see if I can find them in that.

Regards,
Dave C

[MaryA]

Gareth is clearly very interested by our shared family, so by all means feel free to give him a prod.

Strange you should have received a notification but just in case there are gremlins in the work I've sent him a message, hope he responds soon.

[DaveC1974]

There is an option within the user control panel, under "board preferences", "Edit Posting Defaults" then "Notify me upon replies by default". That's probably where the magic happens.

Regards,

Dave C

[gf27]

Hi Dave.
Great to hear from you. Eliza Fletcher, nee Johnstone was my Grandmother who died a few years before I was born. She was married to my Grandfather Alfred Fletcher who died in 1947. I sadly new neither of them.
I am trying to sort out the photo graph for you, I cant find it at the moment, so please be patient.
According to Fletcher folklore Eliza was lying on her deathbed when the local priest called demanding to see her. He was chased down the road by her family and he called back that all of the children would be dammed. When they got back to poor Eliza she had passed away on her own. She had stomach cancer. As I said, I will try to locate some photos for you.

Take care. Gareth Fletcher.

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

Bein' all philosophical for a moment, folk often make the mistake of rushing things along when they need not be rushed. For this reason there is always plenty time when it comes to family history pursuits. My tree on Ancestry now includes a not-very-good image of Mary and a couple of rather better ones of Sarah, there is also an image of Annie Peet, wife of Robert. Previously there was mention from Stella of a person named Cissy, the only use of the name I can identify is that of Annie Peet's sister, also in that image. Unless Sarah was known as Cissy, which I have no verification for.

More images to follow showing Mary's children.

Regards,

Dave C

[MaryA]

Cissy is often used as a nickname, sometimes short for Celia or Cecilia, but could also be for Sarah - or even I've heard "sister".

Just to make you smile, the son of a family I know with a lot of elder sisters, was called "Brud" and when I asked why was told "because he's our brudder"

[gf27]

Dave have sent you a PM.

Gareth.

[gf27]

Hi Dave C.
Pictures of Eliza and Alfred Fletcher. One is taken on their wedding day, you can clearly see the pendant Eliza is wearing. This was a bribe to stop her marring Alfred, didn't work or else I would not be writing this.
There is a solo of Eliza, Date unknown, and I have included one of Alfred with fellow sergeant's, cross above his head, taken C 1920. Alfred was wounded by shrapnel in the first world war and shipped home, research by Promenade.
Sorry for delay in sending, my Son rescan the errant photos.

Gareth.

[DaveC1974]

Hi Gareth,

That's awesome, excellent photos. A fine addition for sure. I am now attempting to figure out how to add an image to a post... (it isn't going well), as I now have an image that may potentially be of interest, ah there we are!

I have adjusted it slightly in a couple of ways.

Regards,

Dave C

[MaryA]

If you both had a copy of the same photograph it would seem to confirm your relationship? Well done!! and lovely old photos for us to see, thanks.

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

Actually it is the same photograph, I guess I forgot to put that in the post! I have applied a few quick image enhancement techniques to it!

I have in the past enhanced images more dramatically but that particular task is even more time-hungry than family history tends to be!

DC

[gf27]

Nice enhancement Dave C,
Dave, How are we related, bearing in mind that Eliza was my grandmother, not very good at that sort of thing.

Cheers . Gareth.

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

Mary was my father's grandmother, since Eliza was yours that means you and my father are of the same generation as far as the extended family goes. You share as common ancestors your great grandparents Catherine (1858-1916) and George (1856-1918). Sharing great grandparents means you are 2nd cousins. I am one generation down, so if you have any children I am their 3rd cousin, sharing great-great grandparents. Because I am one generation down I am "removed" as the saying goes. We are 2nd cousins once removed!

Regards,

Dave C

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

I figured I might as well update this thread for any who might be interested, have any ideas, etc.

James Johnston b. 23/11/1881 is now known to have married Elizabeth Letties (b. JAS1881) at Mount Carmel on 30th January 1904, indicating his job as a seaman (dock board), she is with her parents in 1911, he is not with them, listed as married so he's likely at sea. There is a James Johnston death 23/11/1918 at Toxteth Workhouse, a Marine Fireman of New Henderson St. Apparently fell out of bed, damaged his neck, died in the Workhouse the following day! That could be him, if so he died on his birthday! There's also a marriage of Elizabeth Johnston to Arthur R Lake in 1917, then a death of Elizabeth Lake in 1919, age matches Elizabeth Letties. Perhaps he died earlier (at sea?) and this is a remarriage! The only thing I can think to do from here is see if I can find a burial, perhaps someone else is buried with him that offers a clue.

Andrew Johnston b. 21/05/1892 appears alone, but apparently married, in the 1939 register at 34 Hughson St, Liverpool. Looking back through the electoral register his wife Mary Catherine appears in about 1937. She was Mary Catherine Robinson b. 31/10/1894, married Thomas Hollis in 1916, he was killed in action 02/05/1918, she married Andrew at Mt Carmel 17/02/1920. After these two sightings they vanish... though I've not checked 34 Hughson St in the 1945 Electoral register yet, he might be still there! Apart from that possibility, thus far untraceable! I'm thinking Emigration.

Funny, the earlier ancestors are often easier to trace than the later ones, oh well!

Major thanks to anyone who has any ideas from here, regards,

Dave C

[simone]

I quote "My Mothers name was Eliza, her maiden name was Johnston, her Mothers name was Jones. Eliza had three sisters, Kate, Cissy and Mary, two brothers, Andrew and George. Eliza was born in Wavertree, Liverpool, circa 1885".

Just been reading this interesting query

Have you found out why Stella said her grandmother's name was Jones? Catherine was Clark?


Simone x

[DaveC1974]

Hello,

That's an easy one, Stella's grandmother Catherine (c1857-1916) was the daughter of Richard Clark (b 19/03/1831) and Eliza Jane Jones (b. c1931), but Eliza Jane Jones had originally married John Rogers in 1848, she was widowed thus being able to marry Richard Clark in 1856. She's getting her grandmother mixed up with her great grandmother. I don't have a great deal of detail on these earlier ancestors (yet), but that's what I do have. I also have them on a publicly visible tree on Ancestry if you fancy a look

Since I am directly descended from Eliza, that makes John Rogers one of quite a few individuals who had to die young in order for me to be born... heavy thought!

DC