FORRESTER Help

[belle_fast]

Hello & thanks for adding me Mary .

I'm seeking information on a direct descendant of my husband. I'm Irish and not well versed with records outside of Ireland so I hope I can tap into some wisdom on this particular forum as my search brings me to Liverpool / Lancs!

George Forrester was my husband's x4 Gt Grandfather. He was a Scotsman by birth in 1781 but relocated to Liverpool (via a stint in the West Indies). George established George Forrester & Co. at Vauxhall Road in Liverpool in 1827 and was an Engineer in the marine and locomotive industry.

I've only been able to track George as far as the 1841 Census (although I might have a record of him again in Liverpool in 1847 and a possible death record from West Derby in 1857).

In the 1841 census, George is listed living with his 26yr old daughter Mary Forrester in Liverpool. Mary was listed as being born in Scotland around 1815 so I imagine that is where George married too. George's son James (my husband's x3 Gt Grandfather) was born in Demerara, British Guiana in 1817.

Forrester was a very popular name in Scotland at that time so searching for the birth of a Mary Forrester is proving to be difficult (and expensive!). As James was born in Guiana, I can't get my hands on a copy of his birth certificate to confirm the name of their mother. I'd love to try and find out what her name was and if she lived with the family in Liverpool.

James (who was also an Engineer) can be found in the 1851 census in Great Crosby. He was listed on that Census as John William but his birthplace and profession is consistent and he of course went on to have my husbands x2 Great Grandfather James Stephenson Forrester, who eventually landed and settled in Belfast in the 1860's.

Would there be any Forrester descendants on this forum? Would anyone have any more information on George Forrester and his family in Liverpool from 1825-1860ish?

Any wisdom / steers appreciated!

Thank you
BF

[Blue70]

Hi BF

Welcome to the forum. The 1857 death in the West Derby registration district was not your George Forrester. This George Forrester was buried at Toxteth Park Cemetery and here are his details:-

Name: Forrester, George
Buried: 19 August 1857
Age: 6 months
Rank: Infant
Address: Salisbury Street
Folio: 50
Entry: 982
Section: R
Grave: 217
Ref: 352 CEM 9/1/1


Blue

[Blue70]

Have you looked at the West Derby 1842 death index as a possibility? I noticed an online probate record result that appears to be for this man that says his occupation was Engineer and he lived in Liverpool.


Blue

[yappie]

Hi There is a tree on Anx with information for George Forrester giving his death in 1857 aged 76 if this is of any help

[Blue70]

We can rule out the 1857 death see my first post about this death/burial. I did see that tree on Ancestry the owner doesn't appear to have the death certificate as there's no date of death so they're not yet aware that it's wrong.


Blue

[Bertieone]

Hi BF,

A search on Scots People, Old Parish Records & Catholic Registers gives one hit between 1801/1830, Old Parish Records.



Probably just coincidental, I notice Great Grandfather James Stephenson Forrester carries the same middle name, though different spelling of it. Might be worth a few credits if you haven't already checked it.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Probate entry for 1842
Will of George Forrester late of Liverpool in the County of Lancaster Engineer deceased was proved and Admon Granted unto Alexander Forrester, George Campbell and James Blaikie three of the Executors power reserved to George Forrester the other Executors,
16th August before D Rathbone, Surrogate.
Sworn under £25,000

Sounds like it will be worthwhile getting a copy of that Will, Lancashire Record Office holds wills pre 1858 that were proved at Chester (all wills were proved at the Diocesan courts until 1858). These wills are of people living in Lancashire at that time ie that includes Liverpool.

[MaryA]

Hi There is a tree on Anx with information for George Forrester giving his death in 1857 aged 76 if this is of any help

This would seem a typical example of somebody jumping on an entry and not checking it's accuracy. Gets very annoying when they post it to their tree on Ancestry as others will also "steal" the data without checking too. Before you know it dozens of trees around the world have this incorrect information - grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[yappie]

MaryA I do agree with you. I have pulled so much hair out I am nearly bald about the misinformation on my own family by people who do not do their own research. Example - ggrandfather b 1844 ggrandmother b 1859 so why do 3 trees have them with a son b 1861 I think these people must have failed their maths exams I do not have my family history on any web site and never will. I apologise if I confused matters. yappie

[Bertieone]

Hi BF,

A search on Scots People, Old Parish Records & Catholic Registers gives one hit between 1801/1830, Old Parish Records.



Probably just coincidental, I notice Great Grandfather James Stephenson Forrester carries the same middle name, though different spelling of it. Might be worth a few credits if you haven't already checked it.

His birth registration and Baptism it is spelt, Stevenson

[belle_fast]

Wow! Thanks everyone for your swift replies and help, I really appreciate it!

A few things in response:

Thank you so much Blue for verifying that the George Forrester death in 1857 is not my George. I haven't a clue where to look when it comes to English records so that's really helpful.

I have to admit that the entry you can see on Ancestry is probably mine but in my defence it has only been there for a very short period, mainly just to see if the system would bring anything up to match it and in fairness that's why I'm here - to try and land more accurate info . That's not been the case however and now I know for sure that my George didn't die in 1857 I'll be amending that as soon as I've finished this.

Thank you Bertieone for locating that info on Mary Forrester on Scotlands People. I've spent a bit of time there already and I can't recall right now if I'd found that entry previously (so many Forresters & Stevensons!).

The Mary in that entry is born in 1818 whereas the 1841 census indicates a possible birth year of 1815 (although I know there can be inaccuracies). This could mean that Mary was younger than her brother James and would indicate that their parents possibly came back to Scotland from British Guiana shortly after James birth in 1817 (and before relocating to Liverpool).

The Stephenson / Stevenson link is interesting as George's son James marries a Margaret Stephenson and have a son called James Stephenson / Stevenson Forrester. I thought that his middle name came solely from his mother (who appears to be 'Stephenson') but that links in both sides of the family if that Mary Stevenson is indeed George's wife.

I have located through Ancestry a number of records relating to James Stephenson / Stevenson Forrester and the spelling is varied. I didn't have his birth registration however so that confirms the correct spelling for me too, thanks again Bertieone.

Mary thanks for unearthing a very definite lead for me with George's will (which would indicate a death in late 1841 / early 1842). I will definitely look into following that up. The name Alexander Forrester is a new one to me as well - I wonder if he was the eldest son? I must get to work on that too .

I really can't thank you all enough, you've all been so, so helpful. I wish I'd found this forum sooner!

I may be back....

[Blue70]

This is the death index that appears to link with the probate record:-

Name: George Forrester
Registration Year: 1842
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: West Derby
Volume: 20
Page: 721

I would have thought there would have been a newspaper obituary/notice but nothing comes up in a general search date-wise. I've also looked at every Births, Marriages and Deaths in the Liverpool Mercury for July, August and September 1842 and there's no mention of George Forrester.


Blue

[Bertieone]

Likely connections, names mentioned 1842 Probate.
1851, HO107 P2174 F77 Page48
James Blaikie, bn Scotland, Clerk, HM Customs
Family,
Oxton, Woodchurch, Birkenhead.

Liverpool Mercury 1871

[Hilary]

I had a couple of credits left on Scotland's People so had a look for other children of George Forrester and Mary Stevenson. What I found leads me to suspect that these aren't your James' parents

9/09/1818 Mary
9/09/1818 William
8/10/1820 Anne
4/11/1822 Margaret
6/05/1827 JAMES
All these are Children of the above George and Mary all born in Edinburgh.

As your James was still living in 1851 I can't imagine they would have had 2 sons called James

[Bertieone]

1841, Scotland, with some of the children Hilary found, ages rounded down.

Mrs Mary Forrester
Age
45
birth year
abt 1796
Female
Midlothian, Scotland
Edinburgh St Luke
Midlothian
Queen Street No 56
Occupation:
Teacher Of Music
Mrs Mary Forrester 45
Mary Forrester 20
Anne Forrester 15
James Forrester 14
James Stevenson 70
Augusta Foggo 15
Jane Gunn 35
Henrietta Gunn 15
ED5 Page10 Line530

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... y&h=614709

[Hilary]

It might be worth contacting churches direct to see if you could get James baptism. This link suggests that there are records available .

Church Records - RootsWeb - Ancestry.com
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyggbs/ChurchRecords.htm
St Georges, Georgetown, Demerara 1796. All Saints. ... Records for Baptisms start at 1869 ... Specify the record sought; i.e., Birth, Marriage, Death, Baptism, etc .

[MaryA]

That sounds quite exciting, do investigate that line and let us know the results. We are always eager to know what is available in other countries.

[belle_fast]

Thanks again everyone, you are all so helpful .

I've sent off for a copy of George Forrester's will from Aug 1842 so I'll report back on what that contains in due course. I'll hopefully have something back within a week or so.

I spent a good deal of time over the weekend looking into what records could be available in Guyana and think I'm likely to draw a blank with that. All but one of the churches listed on the Rootsweb page have records that pre-date James Forrester's birth (in 1817) but its the Cathedral and from what I've read, most enquiries go unanswered. I won't rule out following it up in the longer term but it does look like very, very a long shot!

I did however end up scanning my way through newspaper transcripts from Guyana in 1816/17 and the only reference I could find to a George Forrester was his enlistment as an officer in the Demerara General Militia! He volunteered in the marine division so there is a very strong chance this could have been my George. That record was from 11th June 1816 so that at least places him there before James birth.

I've also learnt that George may also have claimed compensation for slave ownership (there was a programme on BBC2 about this recently). London Business School have a website detailing all those who received compensation and there is a George Forrester in British Guiana on their list (6 slaves apparently ). I'm now looking into how to get my hands on a copy of the Parliamentary papers from that time to see if I can get the detail of the claim. The records of these claims were all retained and are at the National Archive in Kew but so far I can't see how individuals are able to access these from outside London.

Anyone any ideas on how to access copies of Parliamentary Papers? I've written back to London Business School too so just checking to see if anyone has experience of doing this previously.

The other Forrester mentioned on George's will (Alexander) must be a son because as far as I know, George had no other relatives of that name. The will should give us some answers on that hopefully.

And of course I have the Scotland's people database to fall back on. It does look like the George Forrester & Mary Stevenson listed are not my ones but I will see what the outcome of my other enquiries are before I go back there.

This is exciting! Thank you again everyone for helping me.

[MaryA]

Parliamentary papers from that time to see if I can get the detail of the claim. The records of these claims were all retained and are at the National Archive in Kew

If there is no link to request a quote for the documents, then send them an email giving the reference, name and date.

[belle_fast]

Hello again all,

I received a copy of George's will at the weekend so just reporting back on some really interesting facts gleaned from that. It's definitely raised more questions than answers.

I’m not sure if the sequence of how you appeared in a will had any bearing but it is actually another George Forrester who is referenced first in the will. He is not George’s son, but the son of Alexander Forrester a land surveyor of Bathgate in Scotland (although this George is resident in Liverpool and his profession listed as an Exciseman). I don’t know the relationship of Alexander and his son George to my George yet but initial searches have produced nothing.

I now know that George's wife's name was indeed Mary, I don't have a maiden name but it indicated that she may have been the daughter of other settlers in Demerara (she was listed as Mary Forrester of Demerara in the will). This may explain why it's been so hard to locate her before now so I may be at a dead end with that for now. I’m not sure what that tells us about Mary's whereabouts at the time of his death though as I’ve not seen his wife on any census returns – did she remain in Demerara I wonder or was she simply somewhere else at the time of the Census? Unlikely to land that one.

I also know now that George had a daughter Isabella. Isabella was also listed as Isabella Forrester of Demerara. It gives no indication of her age and searches on her so far have yielded nothing, I can only assume that she remained in Demerara.

The 1841 census indicated that there may have been another daughter – Mary - born in Scotland around 1815/17 but the only mention in the will of a Mary Forrester is the daughter of Alexander Forrester of Bathgate, Scotland (so the sister of this other George). There is also another sibling mentioned – her name is Janet Forrester.

Alexander Forrester is likely to be a relative, perhaps a brother but this is leading me to re-think George's back story as I did not have an Alexander listed in my tree originally. There is also a reference to a brother Thomas so I definitely need to get back on to Scotlands People to try and learn some more. Ancestry has drawn a blank on that so far.

The biggest thing however is that the will makes no mention whatsoever of his son James. I know for definite that James's father was George Forrester, an Engineer (source is his wedding banns in Manchester in 1839) and I know of no other George Forrester's of that time who were Engineers. This can only lead me to believe that James was cut out of the will entirely - what for I suppose we will never know.

So there we have it. I have an even bigger puzzle now - half of which could be unsolvable due to the Demerara links.