Death Certificate

[lin]

I have just been on to the GRO site to order a death certificate. I wanted a certificate for an Edward Brown aged 10 years when he died in 1850. Burial 19 June St Martin in the Fields Liverpool. He was a Romanist. I put that i did not know the volume and page as i wanted to put the parents names on but nothing came up for me to fill this information in. Looking on ancestry there are quite a few Edward Browns died in the first 6 months of 1850 so not sure which one i would receive. I don't know the volume number anyway all i've found is a burial record and it just says he lived in Bent St no parents named. There was a reference 283MTN4/2/1 but i don't know what this means.
Thanks
Lin

[MaryA]

The reference is for the Burial Register, although you found the entry online this is the official reference so that you could get out the microfilm at the Record Office, it doesn't necessarily correlate with the death - MTN will be the reference for St Martin in the Fields.

I tried the site to give you more detailed information about where to insert your information but they are undertaking maintenance so not available, it would be easier however, to telephone them and give them the information that you have, especially the date of the burial - 19 June - as the death would be only a few days previously. It's a local phone number I believe 0300 123 1837, they have always been helpful when I've telephoned in the past with this sort of query.

I notice that the entry has him marked as "Romanist", I wonder if one of our other members might be able to give a little more background about this label.

[Blue70]

St. Martin's in the Fields was a C of E parish cemetery. The parish was a form of local authority. Many Catholics were buried in parish cemeteries and the RC insisted on Catholics having RC funerals and burials. Parish cemeteries would usually have RC sections. I think this difference in procedure was the reason Catholics in the burial records were often noted as Romanists or Papists. The religion of the deceased was not included in the civil records so you won't find this information on death certificates.


Blue

[Blue70]

The GRO website says the following today but I was still able to get to the "no GRO Index Reference Number" page. On that page I think as long as you put in his age as 10 and address as Bent Street you should get the right certificate:-

Essential Maintenance - Thursday 21 May 2015

The website will be unavailable on Thursday 21 May from 08:00 to 09:00 for essential maintenance to take place. We apologise to customers for any inconvenience caused.



Blue

[MaryA]

Thanks Blue

[lin]

Thanks Mary A and Blue. I did try to put info in but i have only ever put parents names on birth certificates. This did not come up but it is not the norm to have your parents name on death certificate unless you die young i suppose. There was also nowhere to put Bent St. I have just looked on freebmd and there are 2 Edward Browns died June 1850. Could also be more that are not online. I will ring tomorrow and order the one stating 10 years of age and Bent St and see. Not sure if it is mine but i am getting nowhere so i will have to take a chance. I have applied for his birth certificate before and stated parents names and i got my money back. I am really stuck and can't prove anything either way.
Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know if its the right one.
Lin

[Blue70]

Hi lin

This is the way I would enter the details:-



If you want to add the parents names what I would do is enter them where it says occupation of deceased. This can be entered as "son of ....". Just checking my death certificates I have one from 1844 for the death of a 17 month old boy that for occupation says "Son of Robert_ (Joiner)" and the informant is named as the father and his address is also given which is the same as the place of death. Usually only one parent will be named.


Blue

[lin]

Thanks blue. I will do as you say. Let you know how I get on. Thanks again. Lin

[lin]

I received the death certificate today and sadly it's the wrong one. I am sure i put father John and mother Mary on it but this fathers name is James. Oh well at least i can rule that one out.
Thanks
Lin

[MaryA]

Check back with them to make sure that you asked for the correct father. If you did then they shouldn't have provided you with an incorrect certificate and should give you a refund.

[Blue70]

Was the death certificate you received for a death in Bent Street?


Blue

[lin]

Yes blue. His dad's name was James and he was a blacksmith. Spent an hour in Liverpool library today looking at st John's burials for Henry Ingram death but no joy. Totally stuck. Don't know how to prove Henry widow married john Brown or maybe I'm completely on the wrong track
Thanks for your all your help
Lin

[Blue70]

Hi lin

Can you tell us more about this family such as how you know Edward's parents' names and what records you have for the family?


Blue

[lin]

Hi Blue
This is to do with Mary Torpenton? Turkington?. She marries a Henry Ingram in 1822 and i have a copy of the certificate. The certificate states Torpenten but she could not read or write. There are no Torpentons at all on Ancestry. On Family search she is listed as Turkington. Henry and Mary live in Litherland Alley and Henry is a tailor. In 1824 a Patrick Turkington a tailor dies age 24 and he lives in Litherland Alley. When one of Marys children is baptised ( they are good catholics and all the baptisms are on the internet) Patrick Turkington is the godfather. This is after the younger Patrick dies and the only other Patrick Turkington Mary A found in the fever hospital in Mount Pleasant in 1841. I think these 2 Patricks could be her brother and father. There is no further trace of Mary or Henry. When the older Patrick dies in 1844 Mary Brown registers the birth. She cannot read or write and i know she could be anyone, a neighbour or anything but there is a John Brown a mariner who was godfather on another christening. I just had a look and i found a Mary Ingram married a John Brown in October 1836 and she was a widow i am just trying to prove that it is my Mary or not as the case may be. John Brown is a mariner. They went on to have 3 children and i have tried to get a birth certificate but Samuel born 1835, Jane born 1837 and Edward born 1839 have all proved to be impossible. I was hoping one would have the mothers maiden name on.
Both the Patrick Turkingtons were buried in St Johns and they have since moved the bodies from there so i cannot trace them to see if anyone is buried with them or even if they are together.
I searched the burial register for St Johns yesterday from 1833 to 1836 in the library as i was hoping to find a death for Henry Ingram. No luck again but they may have moved from Litherland Alley by then.
Some of the Ingram children were baptised at St Peter Priory. I think St Nicholas as well. Are the burial records for these churches at the library?
Thanks for all your help
Lin

[MaryA]

Previous research about this family here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... turkington

Yes the Registers for St Peter Priory 282PET and St Nicholas 283NIC are held at the Record Office.