Benjamin Winn - buried Liverpool 19 Jan 1803

[Manila Jack]

I have hit, what I believe is a brick wall, or it could be glaringly obvious. My 4th Great Grandfather, Benjamin Winn was buried in St Peter's Church, Liverpool on 19 January 1803. His stated age at death was 58 years. So that would put his birth at around 1745. I have tried all the internet searches and cannot come up with his birth in Liverpool. The only Benjamin Winn born about 1745 was in Kirk Leavington, Yorkshire. Kirk Leavington sounds enticing as Benjamin was a shipwright by trade and Yarm, near Kirk Leavington had shipbuilders so perhaps that is the correct Benjamin Winn. Should I take a trip into Liverpool to find if he was indeed born in Liverpool? If I do, where do I start?

Does anyone of the experienced Liverpool research experts out there have any suggestions please?

[retiringtype]

Do the children match up?

Baptised in Kirk Leavington, father Benjamin Winn:

Robert 1770
Cuthbert 1775
Sarah 1778

[Tina]

Hi R.T I hope the kiddies match up as there is a tree in Anc also Cuthbert still alive in 1861 census.
Good find.

[Bertieone]

For the crew,



Ann Winn
Birth
24 Jun
Baptism
3 Aug 1788
Baptism
Toxteth, St James
Parents, Benjamin Winn, Shipwright, Mother, Elizabeth.

[Bertieone]

Benjamin's given address at burial was Pitt Street.
The 1796 directory has Robert Winn, carpenter, 108 Pitt Street, the 1821 has John Winn, tea dealer, 108 Pitt Street. Possible son and grandson?

[Manila Jack]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. John Winn, born 1785 in Liverpool, was my 3rd great grandfather. I hadn't spotted children born in Kirk Leavington. Maybe because I was too focused on trying to find a Liverpool connection. Of course, Benjamin could have been married twice. Once in Yorkshire and again in Liverpool. Is it possible that a widower could be shown as "bachelor" on the marriage register?

[Manila Jack]

Yes. Ann Winn born 1788 is also in my family tree as the sister of John Winn.

[retiringtype]

So we have a Benjamin Winn who married Elizabeth Buchanan at St Peter's Liverpool in 1769. Elizabeth seems to have survived until 1824.

And over in Yorkshire there is a Benjamin Winn who married Ann Thompson in Kirk Leavington in 1772....this is looking unlikely to be the same person.

[retiringtype]

I see that the Liverpool Benjamin left a will - there is a record of it in "List of Wills and Administrations (Including the Infra Wills), Now Preserved in the Probate Registry at Chester. For the Years 1801-1810, both Inclusive." (Winn, Benjamin, of Liverpool, shipwright Ad. 14 Mar 1804).

Have you managed to get a copy?

[Hilary]

If you also use Wynn as well as Winn you get more children

Mary 1770 this one shows father as Benjamin shipwright of Garden St
Sarah 1775
William 1778
Peggy 1783
John 1785

I think the Benjamin in Yorkshire is a different person as he also had children in 1770 and 1775 and couldn't really have been in 2 places at once.

[Katie]

The wills proved at Chester that cover Lancashire are at Lancashire Record Office.

[Manila Jack]

OK everyone. Thanks for your assistance in this. So it does look like Kirk Leavington is not looking likely as Benjamin's birthplace. I have been to the Lancashire Records Office and obtained the Admon as he died intestate, with his wife Elizabeth applying to the Lord Bishop of Chester to take possession of his goods and chattels and paying 130 Pounds for the privilege. So I would guess that the goods and chattels were worth a lot more than that. The witnesses on the Admon were John Lythgoe, timber merchant, her son-in-law and a John Law, book keeper. Not sure of his relationship to Elizabeth.

[Manila Jack]

I'm on my iPad at the moment so haven't got all the documents to hand about his children born in Liverpool.

[simone]

Hi
The 1769 marriage of Benjamin to Elizabeth has him as a carpenter, but have you seen this marriage which took place on 24/07/1769, the same day as Benjamin's marriage to Elizabeth Buchanan

Mary Winn
Gender:Female
Event Type:Marriage
Event Date:24 Jul 1769
Parish:Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
Spouse:Gilbert English .. stonecutter?
Register Type:
Bishop's Transcript

[Manila Jack]

Benjamin and Elizabeth's children were: John, born 25 Dec 1785, Ann, born 24 Jun 1788 and Thomas, born 09 Nov 1793. I can't seem to find any others.

That marriage of Mary Winn on the same day is intriguing, simone. I hadn't spotted that one. I wonder, sister or cousin or coincidence?

I don't think it's a big step from being a carpenter to being a shipwright.

[simone]

Yes carpenter/ shipwrights not too far away from each other !

Hopefully Mary is a sister , another avenue maybe

[Hilary]

For the other children you need to use Wynn. At that time spelling wasn't as standardised as it is now and names were often spelt in a number of different ways.

[Manila Jack]

Thanks Hilary.

[Bertieone]

Hi Jack,

Hillary's find, Mary, 1770, St Nicholas, daughter of Benjamin Wynn, Shipwright, Garden Street. Immediately below it,
Mary, daughter of Mathew Buchanan, Surgeon, Garden St.

Also a death, 1808, St Peter, Robert, aged 10 days, son of Robert Winn, Surgeon, Pitt St.

Baptism, St James, 1790,
James, son of Benjamin Winn, Carpenter and Elizabeth.

[Bertieone]

Related to Elizabeth, Father perhaps?

Matthew Buchanan

Dates
1776-1800
Liverpool
Occupation(s):
surgeon man midwife medicine(a) medicine(a)
Address
Charlotte street, Liverpool
Source Date:
1781
Source
Listed in Bailey's Northern Directory ... for... 1781. Containing ... Every Principal Town from the River Trent to Berwick-upon-Tweed; with London & Westminster, Edinburgh & Glasgow, 1781. Warrington; Printed by William Ashton