John Casement 1791-1847 Innkeeper Three Legs of Man

[lucioanna]

The above, my 3rd G. Grandfather, was a shipwright and licensed victualler/Publican. In the Liverpool Mercury Sept. 1847, there was a Death notice for his wife Elizabeth Casement and it said that 'she was the widow of the late John Casement of the Three Legs of Man, Salthouse Dock, of this town'. My problem is that I can only find one pub that was called the Three Legs of Man and that was on the corner of Lime Street. In the 1841 census it states that he is a publican and he and his family are living in the Salthouse Docks (East end). Various Poll books have confirmed this as well. I just wondered if anyone can tell me if it is possible that there was a pub in the Salthouse Docks (circa1840's) called the 3 Legs of Man? Ann

[Bertieone]

Hi Ann and welcome,

A snippet from the Corn Riots, 1841



https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=skF ... ck&f=false

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Many pubs at that time may have been known by their names without being registered for very long.

It's possible that your ancestor may be noted in the Licence Registers (changes of publican) and would be held at the Liverpool Record Office.

It would be a different place from the Legs of Man (don't know that this was called THREE Legs of Man) on the corner of Lime Street.

Looking through some directories, will post again if I come across anything.

[MaryA]

No mention in 1790

Noted in Baines Street Directory 1825
Leeds Street, 69, John Casement

Gores Directory 1827
Casement John, painter, Toxteth park
..........John, victualler, 9, Pitt street

1843 Gores Directory
Casement, John, Painter, plumber and glazier, 79 Park Row, Toxteth Park
John, Shipwright and Victualler, 5 E side Salthouse Dock
Martha, provision dealer, 79 Park Road, Toxteth Park

Entries for him appear to have ended before 1853

[Blue70]

Looking on an 1850 map that is too small to post East Side Salthouse Dock is now Strand Street (also known as the Dock Road) it was opposite Salthouse Dock. You might be able to identify the exact location using this Godfrey map:-

http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/liv29.htm


Blue

[retiringtype]

Re the shooting incident, the Liverpool Mercury for 2 July 1841 reports that it was "Mr Caseman" who opened fire on the mob.

[Joe Griffiths]

The Alan Godfrey map mentioned is available from the Society's on-line shop http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/a ... ps_96.html

[Blue70]

Is this particular map in our shop I can't see it is it just me on my iPhone not reading properly?


Blue

[Joe Griffiths]

My fault !!! click on Large Scale Maps, top left of the screen

[retiringtype]

John Casement acquitted of manslaughter at Liverpool Assizes in connection with the shooting incident:

Aris's Birmingham Gazette 30 August 1841, page 1
Sussex Advertiser 23 August 1841, page 10
London Standard 26 August 1841, page 4

[Blue70]

Thanks Joe. New link:-

http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/a ... _Maps.html

Thinking again with John Casement's death in 1847 and the fact that Slater's Directory 1848 doesn't list him or the pub at that location maps from this time probably won't feature it.

Here are some similar named pubs from Slater's Directory 1848:-

Legs of Man, Costain William, 41 Blundell Street
Legs of Man, Noble Thomas, 94 Lime Street
Legs of Man, Owen Thomas, 27 Norfolk Street
Legs of Man, Tyson Alice, 27 Hatton Garden
Legs of Man, Whalley James, 28 Redcross Street
Three Legs of Man, Fryer Samuel, Nova Scotia

Samuel Fryer was a victualler at 5 Nova Scotia in Gore's Directory 1843 so this pub existed at the same as the one in East Side Salthouse Dock. There doesn't appear to be many people living in East Side Salthouse Dock in 1851 so the pub had probably gone by then. Here is a little map from the 1851 Census:-





Blue

[lucioanna]

Bertieone,
Thank you so much for that snippet, It has been so helpful. I am now thinking that the Liverpool Mercury had misprinted the name of the Inn, namely the THREE Legs of Man and am almost certain now that it should be the Legs of Man, Toxteth Park.
I had intended to upload the Liverpool Mercury death notice, but have been unable to find the appropriate button on here to upload.

Mary A
Thank you for all the info., very kind of you, I didn't have the 1843 Gore info. My John Casement was born in the Isle of Man and came over to Liverpool at a young age, he married a girl from Liverpool - Elizabeth Bell. I have his marr. cert. and Death Cert. but have never found out where he was buried. this will be my next job when I return to the Liverpool Records office. Thanks again.

Blue
I will study that information on the maps and also the interesting stuff about the pubs, also I am amazed at the other map you have posted of Salthouse Docks, I will definitely get one of those Alan Godfrey maps. Thank you so much, you have been so kind to do all that.

Joe thanks for that!

Retiring Type
Do you know I remember reading that in Gales 19th Century papers, but it didn't click with me that it might be my John Casement, I'll have another look, thanks. Had a look YES it is my John Casement. Thank you!

[MaryA]

Instructions to show a photograph in your message
http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =16&t=9817

If you return to the Record Office and need any assistance, please try to visit on a Tuesday afternoon when the Society hosts a help desk between 1.30 and 4.00 pm, it would be nice to put a face to a name

[retiringtype]

In case you don't have this already:

Deaths

Feb. 9, in Ansdell-street, aged 56, Mr. John Casement, carpenter, formerly of the Isle of Man.

(Liverpool Mercury 2 April 1847)

[Blue70]

Ansdell Street is the first street from the left going up from East Side Salthouse Dock in that little map image I posted.


Blue

[Blue70]

No sign of his burial anywhere. I wonder if he was buried at St. James Cemetery? He doesn't appear to be on the old online database but that consists of c14000 burials while the total burials was c58000 so still a possibility of him being buried there. Old online database of c14000 burials is still available here:-

http://www.stjamescemetery.co.uk/cemetery/untitled.html


Blue

[MaryA]

Wherever he is he didn't have a headstone as he's not listed on Gibsons.

[dickiesam]

In case you don't have this already:

Deaths
Feb. 9, in Ansdell-street, aged 56, Mr. John Casement, carpenter, formerly of the Isle of Man.

(Liverpool Mercury 2 April 1847)

Just a thought.... could he have been buried in the Isle of Man?

[lucioanna]

Thank you all once again. Yes, I will have to try and get to the Liverpool RO as soon as the weather picks up and on a Tuesday if poss. Mary. I am a computer dummy and have spent 3 hours trying to reduce the size of a file to upload here. I gave up and uploaded it on to Photobucket as it is:


Thank you "retiring type" for the snippet in the Liv Merc. I could not find it when I looked. I see they refer to him as a Carpenter, on his death cert. he is a Victualler. I must thank you again for the news on that shooting at the legs of man - I was absolutely amazed while I read the articles. His family must have been terrified and John C was suffering from Rheumatism so it must have been painful.
Blue, I have seen the St James'burial records on the online database, I didn't know that there were so many burials not recorded on there. so I will have a look when I go to Liverpool. My John C's brother, Joseph James is on there with his wife and son. Actually, I often wonder if John was buried in the IOM. His wife was buried in Andreas IOM, because she went to live near her daughter in Ramsey IOM, I presume after John died. I have looked on Lawson's BMD where I found Elizabeth's burial but there is no trace of John C.

DickieSam We are both thinking the same thing! hah!

I have just found on Ancestry: Pigot's 1834 Legs of Man, John Casement, 3, Salthouse, East End Dock. In Pigot's 1828/9 The Globe,John Casement,9 Pitt Street

[Bertieone]

1824, Baines Directory,

John Casement, Victualler, Ship Launch, 69 Leeds St.