Birth Name

[lin]

Hi I have an Athola Grocott born on the 10th November 1894 and baptism 19th November 1894. Could this really be her name? The only thing that comes up in google on Athola is a village in Punjab. Ancestry has transcribed it as Athola and looking at the baptism record that is what it looks like. Her parents are Edward Stephani Grocott and Annae Gordon on the record. The mothers name is Annie Jordon on her marriage certificate and also on censuses they have grandchildren in the house who are called Jordan. I can't find any trace of Athola after that and i know she died before 1911. Could be before 1901 as she does not appear on the 1901 census.
Any suggestions as to what her/his name could be? The other children are called Edward, Samuel, Elenora and Ethel, so Athola is a bit different to the names they usually use. Just found another child born 1899, died 1900 Joanna/Johanna Grocott
Thanks
Lin

[Bertieone]

Ethel?

Athola, the recorders version of Ethel in Latin.

[lin]

Thanks so much Bertieone. I didn't have a clue what it was. I have Ethel but i am looking for 3 that died early. Thought Athola was one of them.
Thanks again
Lin

[Bertieone]

Catholic baptisms found,

Eleanor, 1890
Samuel, 1891
Maria, 1893
Athola, 1894 Ethel was born 1894 and there's no baptism for an Ethel.
Edward, 1897
Joanna, 1899

1911 census, 3 children still living, Eleanor, Ethel, Edward.

[lin]

Thanks again Bertieone. You are so quick at finding things out. Ethel, Samuel, Edward and Elenora all lived and i know what happened to them. Maria and Joanna and another one all died before 1911.
Could you shed any light on this query as well. I have the family on the 1891 census ref: RG12/2947 Samuel is my husbands father and he is 3 weeks old. 1901 Ref: RG13/3484 he is 10 years old. On the 1911 census there is no reference but if you search Eleanor born 1890 it comes up right away and they are all there apart from Samuel. He is alive as he gets married in 1918 but i cannot find out where he is in 1911. I hope he isn't any where he shouln't be but it's possible with the Grocotts. To make matters worse his mother put on the 1911 census that she had 7 children and 3 lived and 4 died and that should be 4 lived and 3 died. Maybe they disowned him. They were ok in later life as the family remember Aunty Ethel etc. All branches of this tree on the female side lead to Ireland so it's a struggle.
Thanks again
Lin

[dickiesam]

1911 census, 3 children still living, Eleanor, Ethel, Edward.

Hi Lin,
There has to be a mistake in the 1911 Household Return for the Grocott family. I believe there were at least 4 children living, not 3.
In 1901 there is a son Samuel..
Births Jun 1891: Grocott, Samuel - W. Derby 8b 252

He died in 1975.....
Death: SAMUEL GROCOTT
Birth date: 13 Mar 1891
Death year/quarter: 1975 / 4
District: LIVERPOOL; Vol 36 Page 0276

I believe the surviving children in 1911 were:
Eleanor [aka Nellie in 1901] bn 1890; Samuel bn 1891; Ethel bn1894 and Edward bn 1897.

[dickiesam]

I see I was a bit late with my previous post.....

However, re the missing deceased child: This is the entire FreeBMD listing of Grocott children born between 1888 and 1911 and who had died before April 1911. A process of elimination, such as discounting the Toxteth registrations, checking baptisms and births too close to a known birth, could bring up the missing death.

Births Sep 1891: Grocott, James - W. Derby 8b 355
Deaths Jun 1893: GROCOTT, James [2] West Derby 8b 309

Births Jun 1895: Grocott, Ellen - Toxteth Park 8b 186
Deaths Jun 1896: Grocott, Ellen [1] Toxteth Park 8b 127

Births Jun 1893: Grocott, Mary - W. Derby 8b 278
Deaths Jun 1896: Grocott, Mary [3] W. Derby 8b 185

Births Dec 1897: Grocott, Polly - Toxteth Park 8b 179
Deaths Dec 1897: Grocott, Polly [0] Toxteth Park 8b 155

Births Jun 1899: Grocott, Amy Ellen - W.Derby 8b 403
Deaths Sep 1899: Grocott, Amy Ellen [0] W. Derby 8b 366

Births Mar 1899: Grocott, Johanna - W. Derby 8b 288
Deaths Mar 1900: Grocott, Johanna [1] W. Derby 8b 469

Births Jun 1900: Grocott, Lizzie - W.Derby 8b 345
Deaths Sep 1900: Grocott, Lizzie [0] W. Derby 8b 264

Births Dec 1900: Grocott, Ellen - W. Derby 8b 369
Deaths Jun 1901: Grocott, Ellen [0] W. Derby 8b 276

Births Jun 1901: Grocott: William - W. Derby 8b 473
Deaths Jun 1901: Grocott, William [0] W. Derby 8b 320

[dickiesam]

Re:

Samuel. He is alive as he gets married in 1918 but i cannot find out where he is in 1911.

What was his occupation on the marriage cert?

[dickiesam]

His apparent absence from the 1911 census makes me consider the Army or Navy. He isn't in the MN lists I have looked at but I wonder if this is him? Need a military 'expert' to explain the 2 Service numbers. Had he already enlisted and then re-signed when WW1 started?

Samuel Grocott
Service number 10736, 85093
Rank: Private
Corps: Liverpool Regiment
Service record: Soldier Number: 10736, Rank: Private, Corps: Liverpool Regiment
Service record 2: Soldier Number: 85093, Rank: Private, Corps: Liverpool Regiment
Archive reference: WO372/8
Archive reference description: Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards

And here's another candidate. Age and enlistment date are possibles.
Record set: Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Samuel Grocott
Service number: 85093
Rank: Private
Badge number: 456283
Enlistment date: 16-Aug-1909
Discharge date: 19-Apr-1919
Unit from which discharged: Depot K.L.R.
Cause of discharge: 392 (xvia) A.
Whether served overseas: Yes
Badge date of issue: 03-Mar-1920
Age on discharge: 29
Additional Info: 7940

[Bertieone]

10736, 1st Kings Liverpool,
85093, 2nd Garrison Kings Liverpool,

[Bertieone]

Elimination Purposes.


Births Sep 1891: Grocott, James - W. Derby 8b 355
Deaths Jun 1893: GROCOTT, James [2] West Derby 8b 309 Ford Cem, Address, Liverpool Convent?

Births Jun 1895: Grocott, Ellen - Toxteth Park 8b 186
Deaths Jun 1896: Grocott, Ellen [1] Toxteth Park 8b 127

Births Jun 1893: Grocott, Mary - W. Derby 8b 278
Deaths Jun 1896: Grocott, Mary [3] W. Derby 8b 185

Births Dec 1897: Grocott, Polly - Toxteth Park 8b 179
Deaths Dec 1897: Grocott, Polly [0] Toxteth Park 8b 155

Births Jun 1899: Grocott, Amy Ellen - W.Derby 8b 403
Deaths Sep 1899: Grocott, Amy Ellen [0] W. Derby 8b 366, Ford Cem, Address, Reading St

Births Mar 1899: Grocott, Johanna - W. Derby 8b 288
Deaths Mar 1900: Grocott, Johanna [1] W. Derby 8b 469

Births Jun 1900: Grocott, Lizzie - W.Derby 8b 345
Deaths Sep 1900: Grocott, Lizzie [0] W. Derby 8b 264, Walton Cem, Address, 15 Dorset St

Births Dec 1900: Grocott, Ellen - W. Derby 8b 369
Deaths Jun 1901: Grocott, Ellen [0] W. Derby 8b 276, Ford Cem, Address, Reading St

Births Jun 1901: Grocott: William - W. Derby 8b 473
Deaths Jun 1901: Grocott, William [0] W. Derby 8b 320

[lin]

Hi Dickiesam he got married in 1919. He was 28 and a Ship Steward. Thanks for all your help. Bertieone i will go through all those births and see if i can find the missing child. Thanks to you as well for your help.
Lin

[dickiesam]

Re:
Births Mar 1899: Grocott, Johanna - W. Derby 8b 288
Deaths Mar 1900: Grocott, Johanna [1] W. Derby 8b 469

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... ptisms.php has this baptism:
ST MICHAEL - bn 1899 bpt 1899 JANE GROCOTT; father EDWARD STEPHEN; mother ANN JORDAN
I assume Jane is Johanna?

Marriages Jun 1889: Grocott, Edward Stephen and Jordan, Annie - Liverpool 8b 174

The family address in 1901 was 26 Godfrey Street.

[lin]

Hi Dickiesam
Thanks for that. I have the marriage certificate of Ann Jordan and Edward Grocott. With all yours and Bertieones help i can rule out a few of the births posted on the site. I hope to be able to work out which one is mine.
Would a ship steward be part of the forces or is it just a job?
Thanks again
Lin

[dickiesam]

Hi Dickiesam
Would a ship steward be part of the forces or is it just a job?
Thanks again
Lin

Methinks more likely to be MN?