Death on board the Basilisk

[dickiesam]

From anx may have been on Pacific and city of Baltimore, but again I can't be certain. The number for these William Mitchells are different. Did it change if they changed ship?

If the numbers [usually 5 to 6 digits] you are referring to are the numbers on the man's MN card, usually just one on the front and quite often several on the reverse, they are vessel ID numbers. All merchant vessels registered in the UK had an individual identification number.
See: http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php
From the above site.... The database includes every British registered ship from 1855 to the early 1950s with official numbers 1 to 200000.

[lynne99]

This is a number on the Liverpool crew lists. Eg when on the Pacific a William itchell b L'poolm had a number 387CRE/660.

Name:William Mitchell
Age:24
Birth Year:1844
Birth Place: Liverpool
Event Date: 30 Oct 1868

Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name: Pacific
Official Number: 51465
Reference Number:
387CRE/660

[dickiesam]

I stand to be corrected but that number 387CRE/660 looks like an 'internal' crew list reference and not a merchant mariner's ID number.

[lynne99]

Thanks Dickie sam. I cannot find Pacific on the clip data base
But from searching through the papers it appears to be owned by PSNC

[lynne99]

Found it when I put in the number 51645.
Now trying to see what I can find. Wish me luck.

[MaryA]

Well let us know what you discover, sorry I haven't been of much use as I am not as experienced as others with military and seamen.

However, if you have taken the death from somebody else's tree, is there no source reference where they got their information from? If not, then I would suggest you look into my previous suggestion of scouring the newspapers for the time in question.

[dickiesam]

Found it when I put in the number 51645.
Now trying to see what I can find. Wish me luck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Pacific_%281851%29

[lynne99]

Hi Mary and Dickiesam. Thankyou so much for the time and information you have given me. I now am considering that Alexander Edmund might not have been on the Basalisk I might have been this other Alexander Mitchell b Oct 1841. I will get the marriage certificate for Alexander Mitchell and Frances Walls in 1867. This will allow me to see if it is Alexander with father John, or not. I will look on Anx first incase I can find for free. Looking back the "Death at sea" had a probate to his widow Frances which would link to 2 together. I will be back.
Regarding William Mitchell b 1845 (the year his father died). I can't find him on 1861 census (before he married and after his mother died) , but he said his job was mariner on his marriage. Using Liverpool crew lists on Anx the only one that might be possible is on "Pacific" 1868, Registered Liverpool. The Wikipedia article seems to relate to an American ship not with Pacific steam navigation company. But any information is very useful. I will sort my rellies lives out, but it might take me ages. Keeps me off the street as my mum used to say.Thank you both once again Lynne. Off to London now, to see my grandchildren's nativity play.

[dickiesam]

History:
Originally in service on passenger runs between Panama and San Francisco, the Pacific was among the many vessels who ferried miners from California to the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush in 1858. She was damaged from a grounding in the 1860s and was repaired but was retired from service. The onset of the Cassiar Gold Rush in far northern British Columbia saw her returned to service in the period 1872 to 1875, by the Pacific Mail Steamship Company, on a regular run from San Francisco to and from Victoria, British Columbia and the American cities of Puget Sound.

I suppose it is possible William jumped ship and joined the Gold Rush?

[MaryA]

Ancestry has identified this as being at St Peter's Everton

[dickiesam]

1871: RG10 Piece 3801 Folio 110 Page 12
Address: 36 Aiken Street, Toxteth Park, West Derby
Alexander Mitchell Head 27 1844 Baker - Liverpool
Frances Mitchell Wife 25 1846 - Liverpool.
George Walls Lodger 61 1810 Baker - Isle of Man
James Taylor Lodger 22 1849 Fireman, railways - Manchester

[lynne99]

Thanks Mary A and Dickie Sam. You've just saved me £9.25 as well as a 4 week wait.
This Alexander is not , absolutely certainly, my Alexander Edmund Mitchell. His father (and my G Grandparent William's father) was definitely John, a gardener, who lived in Allerton / Dingle Area. This is from William's birth certificate and William's marriage cert. This means that it was not my Alexander Edmund who served on the Basilisk and who died at sea and who's probate was left to widow Francis. Oh dear back to the drawing board.

[MaryA]

What a shame, still the research was interesting.

[dickiesam]

Oh well, it was a good hunt while it lasted.
Are you basing your quest on the apparent absence of Alexander from the 1861 census or is there other info to suggest he was definitely alive and kicking somewhere?

Have you considered this...?
Deaths Dec 1859: Mitchell, Alexander - Liverpool 8b 36

[lynne99]

I have a definite in 1851 census at 55 Ashton St Liverpool, with Mother and siblings.
Esther Mitchell 32
Alexander Mitchell 11
John Mitchell 9
William Mitchell 6
James Mitchell 5
Edward Looker 34
Cathrine D Looker 30
Edward D Looker 2
Piece:2183
Folio:113
Page Number:10
I cannot find a match in 1861. The one in Portsmouth must be the one that married Frances in 1867. There is another Alexander in 1861 in Liverpool, Toxteth Park, who is a docker, but he has a brother William who is older than him and he is too young. They are boarders. William is also married to a Sarah. Not mine. So perhaps the death in 1859 might be worth searching. Is there an age?? Thanks again Lynne

[dickiesam]

Hi Lynne,
I had found Alexander in 1851 with his widowed mother Esther. Regarding the death in 1859, unfortunately 'Age at death' was not entered into the GRO Index until the 1870s. You might be able to find a burial that fits though. That may have more info.

[Bertieone]

I cannot find a match in 1861. The one in Portsmouth must be the one that married Frances in 1867. There is another Alexander in 1861 in Liverpool, Toxteth Park, who is a docker, but he has a brother William who is older than him and he is too young. They are boarders. William is also married to a Sarah. Not mine. So perhaps the death in 1859 might be worth searching. Is there an age?? Thanks again Lynne

The Alexander in Portsea is not the one that married Frances,
1861,
RG9 Piece2700, Folio132, Page25,

Alexander Mitchell
Fanny Wallis

[lynne99]

Hi Bert and thank you. The witness on their marriage was William Walls , who if was this family would follow as Fanny's brother William was same age as Alexander. Right but when the Alexander Mitchell died at sea , the probate was granted to his widow Francis.
"Administration of the effects of the late Alexander Mitchell, Late of Aiken Street, Toxteth Park Liverpool, in the county of Lancaster Cook. Who died 13 Dec 1873 at sea was granted at Liverpool to Francess Mitchell of 36 Aiken St. Widow the relict." This would follow from him being a baker. The Alexander Mitchell on the Basilisk, in 1871, was a stoker not a cook, but he was married. So this must be 2 different Alexander Mitchell, who perhaps both went to sea. Perhaps he did not die on the Basilisk. I will try to investigate further. But do not have world wide subscription.
Thanks again all

[MaryA]

I will try to investigate further. But do not have world wide subscription.

The library does

[Bertieone]

Alexander Mitchell you seek had the parents John and Esther, therefore the Aiken Street Alexander can be put to bed, the 1861 AM and the AM on the Basilisk, 1871 can't be the Aiken St one, as far as the census information is concerned, they can't be in 2 places at the same time. The Alexander Mitchell of Aiken St can be identified in 61 and 71. The probate says he was a cook and died at sea, 1873.
My question to the brains trust is, if a passenger dies at sea, how are they described, if they are described as 'Died at sea' does it mean they were definitely a Mariner/Seaman?