Mary & Jane, mangle keepers

[gf27]

Some help please.
On the 1841 census Mary and Jane Fletcher are recorded at Midgall St Liverpool, along with Thomas And Jacob Fletcher. I cannot locate in latter census records Jane and Mary. I am pretty sure DS located them for me some time ago and Mary and Jane Fletcher were listed as Mangle Keepers or Mangle for hire, not sure which. There was a collection for Mary when her husband died, for her to purchase a mangle, I suspect to keep the wolf from the door.
If it is any help, Mary died in Smithdown Road workhouse in 1873 which would narrow down the census. I have looked in FMP census records without success, but knowing me I've missed something.
As always, grateful for any help.
Gareth.

[MaryA]

Could you post the reference from the 1841 census or at least full details so that we can find them in 1841, without ages etc. it is very difficult to try to help.

[MaryA]

OK this is possibly the one you are referring to
HO107 Piece number 555 Book number 6 Folio number 21 Page number 37
Midghall Street, Liverpool - all born in County
Mary Fletcher 40
Jane 15
Thomas 12
Jacob 7

No occupations given

[MaryA]

Forgive me if I am going over old ground but you haven't given much information. I was trying to see if Jane may have married and to do this the father's name would be useful for identification.

There are baptisms at St Peter's on 1 September 1834 for Jane, Thomas and Jacob Fletcher of Cockspur Street, parents Jacob and Mary Fletcher, father's occupation Mariner.

These would appear to be your children at least, so it would seem the father was also Jacob.

So there is a possible marriage at St Peters on 30 September 1823 for Jacob Fletcher, Mariner and Mary Walmesly. She appears to have been a spinster and both of the Parish of Liverpool.

Young Jacob's marriage at St Mary, Edge Hill on 27 May 1854, 21 years old, bachelor, Rope Maker, of Toxteth Park, father Jacob, Mariner, married Susannah Scandlen, 20 years old, spinster of West Derby, father James Scandlen, Carpenter. Witnesses William Sharps? and Margaret Cumming.

A similar search for a marriage for Thomas or Jane with father Jacob didn't produce any results.

[dickiesam]

1841: HO107 Piece 555 Book 6 Folio 21 Page 37
Midghall Street, Liverpool
Mary Fletcher 40 1801 Lancashire
Jane Fletcher 15 1826 Lancashire
Thomas Fletcher 12 1829 Lancashire
Jacob Fletcher 7 1834 Lancashire

[Karen]

1851 Census - their surname has been written as 'Flacer'

Roger Street
Piece: 2192, Folio: 551, Page Number: 29

Mary Flacer / head / widow / 52 / Mangling for Hire / Lancashire, Ormskirk
Jane Flacer / daur / unm / 26 / Mangling for Hire / Lancashire, Liverpool
Thomas Flacer / son / unm / 23 / Ropemaker ap / Lancashire, Liverpool
Jacob Flacer / son / unm / 18 / Ropemaker ap / Lancashire, Liverpool

[MaryA]

There is a Jacob Fletcher, 28 Single, an Ordinary Seaman in the Royal Navy aboard the ship Caesar in the Mediterranean in the 1861 census, so there are possibly two Jacobs of a similar age born in Liverpool.
RG 9; Piece: 4433; Folio: 109; Page: 10

Amended typo, this entry was for 1861 not 1851

[dickiesam]

In 1851 Mary Fletcher/Flacer says she is from Ormskirk...

1861: RG09 Piece 2762 Folio 97 Page 24
Address: Behind Wellington Terrace, Upper King Street, North Meols, Ormskirk.
Mary Fletcher Head Widow 61 1800 Formerly Laundress - Hey, Lancashire.
The laundress fits with hiring use of a mangle but Hey is nowhere near Ormskirk?

[gf27]

Thank you all for your efforts.
Mary A. Yes I must be more specific with my questions to the forum, But you and DS cracked the 1841 census record anyway, was there any doubt ?
Mary A you are correct re the Mary Walmesly and Jacob Fletcher wedding at St Peter in 1823. Mary was born in Ormskirk in 1799. This Jacob died aboard the Liverpool floating bath in 1834. there is a record of this in the mercury. Interestingly there is a mention of purchasing a mangle for the widow.
The baptism's at St Peter in 1834 must have been a block booking to save money. Would there have been a charge?
Mary A. Icing on cakes and all that. I had no idea re Jacob jnr,s wedding at St Marys, Will give that a good looking at. Jacob and Thomas were both in the royal navy.
Karen thank you for finding the census record I was looking for, Flacer instead of Fletcher, don't help does it. DS the 1861 census record is bit odd.
To put some flesh on bones here is a photo of Thomas Fletcher in his navy uniform.

Thanks. Gareth

[MaryA]

I made a type in that census I quoted for Jacob in the Navy - it should have been 1861, which is what confuses me as it states he is Single, but the marriage I found would have been earlier than that.

[gf27]

Mary A.
I now have a bit of a mystery. Your find that Jacob Fletcher weds Susannah Scandlen, 1854, St Mary, Liverpool, fits perfectly, BUT, On my tree I have Jacob marrying Ellen Jones. Their Children were Ellen, Thomas, Jacob, Robert, William, Annie, Mary and Alfred. All born between circa 1869 and 1883.The naming fits in with the Fletchers at that time, Alfred was my Grandfather.
I now cant find a record of Jacob marrying Ellen???? As they say nowadays, its doing my head in
Can some kind soul help me out. Thanks. Gareth.

[Bertieone]

Jacob Fletcher/Ellen Jones 1869 Walton on the Hill,
Fathers, Jacob Fletcher/Robert Jones,

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... h=38627941

[daggers]

There are no fees for CofE baptisms but sometimes vigilant vicars or curates carried out 'trawls' resulting in these bulk lists.
D

[gf27]

Thanks Bert.
I also found that record, Just, For the Walton on the Hill Marriage in 1869. Found it on the Lancashire on line parish clerks site.
Going back to MaryA,s find re the wedding at St Marys in 1854 for a Jacob Fletcher and Susannah Scandlen. One hell of a coincidence. Could Jacob have married twice? Even though the Walton on the hill record states he was single.
Any thoughts on this little mystery?
Thanks Daggers. I thought that Mary may have had some money left after getting her mangle to allow her to get the kids baptised on the same day, but it would seem that it may not have been necessary. Perhaps a few coppers in the collection box would suffice.

Cheers. Gareth.

[Bertieone]

He may have married twice illegally.

1871
RG10 P4028 F30 Page22
Silk St, Manchester,

Elizabeth Scanlin 69 Widow, Head, Bn, Liverpool
Susannah Fletcher 37, married, daughter, Seamstress, Bn, Liverpool

Fathers name on Marriage, Mary posted,
James Scandlen
Spouse: Elizabeth Killing
Marriage: 18 Feb 1833 - St. Anne's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

[gf27]

Bert, OMG.
Me thinks I might have a skeleton in my cupboard Great. Is it possible though Susannah and Jacob divorced at some time and she retained his name, long shot I know, and she did say she was married in 1871 census.
It must be remembered that Jacob was in the navy and maybe that didn't suit Susannah. Note to Mary A, Jacob was on HMS CAESAR. There is a painting of the ship sailing in the Solent, rather interesting as I live on the Isle of Wight.
Another mini mystery is that I have Jacobs Brother Thomas's navel records from the archives, but I could never find Jacobs.
Back to the bigamy issue. Could it all have been one big coincidence?
Just think I only wanted to find out where the Mangle keepers were living :lol
Great Forum. Thank you. Gareth.

PS I think I remember DS spelling skeletons differently.

[dickiesam]

PS I think I remember DS spelling skeletons differently.

In our family, thanks to a daughter when she was around 3 years old, we call them skellingtons!

[MaryA]

There's no fun in this hobby without a few skellingtons knocking around.

I doubt it's all a big coincidence, he says he is single when on the SS Caesar in 1861 so I think he may be a jack the lad. Highly unlikely they were divorced, but you could check the National Archives site just to be sure, but some agreement to just separate perhaps, or maybe Susannah didn't know about his mystery side - and this is something you may never know, except I would suggest to watch for Susannah later and see if there are any children about.

[Bertieone]

1881,

Susannah still with her mother in Manchester, now she declares herself a widow.

RG11; Piece: 3998; Folio: 50; Page: 18;

[gf27]

Hi all.
Just a quick thank you to everybody who helped me with this thread. I am going to record Jacob Fletcher as a probable bigamist, bad lad
I wonder is poor Susannah thought he had just gone missing. Will probably never know.
Take care. Gareth.