Ellison/Roberts - A family mystery ?

[MaryA]

Helps with confirmation, so well done! Don't forget you won't find children on the Electoral Registers until they came to 21? I don't think it was 18 back then.

I would suspect very likely Brougham Terrace for that part of town, pity there's not any photographs afterwards, could have been in the Necropolis (Gerrards Gardens)

[VicMar1]

Ooops! never thought of that Mary and it will have been 21 as you say.
I suspect that they will have moved in to David's flat at Prince Edwin St, Everton so that is where I will concentrate my efforts at first.
If not I will just have to search the street directories and hope for a break. Annie was 22 at marriage and I suppose that, given she has so far demonstrated her independence from what would be traditional family to this date (with the exception of Ellen L?) the couple may have chosen to live at her declared address at what looks like "Upper Bean St, Everton".
Already found some promising candidates for offspring, Jeanette.T.Miller1933, Annie Frances Miller1930 & David Miller1928.

I am convinced now that there was indeed a schism between the family members ?
Will it ever be known whether Martha and Robert split acrimoniously,or was she a widow BEFORE she took up with Horatio?
Back to the wheel and start pedaling !

[VicMar1]

A chance remark from a colleague gave me something to think about. Having delved further into it I can now visualise a darned good reason for the Ellison children to resent their 'stepfather'(?) Horatio. You may remember DS, your suggestion of "kicking with both feet" when it was puzzling me that they were living in Netherfield Rd Sth, (a notoriously "orange" area)and yet everything pointed to them being Roman Catholics ? The young boy George who was later found to be George WISE Roberts provides many clues and confirms my suspicions. Especially in light of this knowledge :-
http://www.liverpoolloyaliststandard.co ... 1855-1917/
The search for understanding continues.

[dickiesam]

Hello Vic,
Thanks for the update. Certainly something to think about. A child of parents with 'opposing' religious views back then could have a fraught upbringing, not knowing which direction to face... Rome or the C of E.

[VicMar1]

DS,
Using your little trick and letting the GRO do the sorting worked for me yet again.
I have found that the eldest Ellison child,William, who was the initial reason for my entire quest was registered as William James Ellison,although the James part seems to have never been recorded anywhere else that I have discovered as yet.
I am baffled by this as the two subsequent siblings,Letitia & Annie Frances, were registered and baptised as RC, and search as I might throughout the RC church records for that area (Toxteth Park)post March 1894, I have not found any record of christening/baptism at all for him.
He was born while the family were living in Exeter St and the nearest RC churches would seem to be St.Malarchy, St Patricks or St Vincent de Paul.
With more than a little help from MaryA we have found nothing for that period that throws any light on him being 'enrolled' in the Roman Catholic faith.
This puzzles me,why the two girls and not the firstborn ?
I am thinking that maybe he was baptised much later but surely it would be a logical step to have done so at Letitias' ceremony during 1897 when it will have cost less to perform ?
My thinking also extends to the possibility of him having possibly arranged for it before he enlisted and went off to war in 1914/15 but think that is probably clutching at straws ?
Anyone have any thoughts as to why this could be or any suggestions where to look that may not be so obvious ? Dont think its likely to be on line as I have exhausted that option.
Any suggestions will,as always,be most welcomed.

[MaryA]

What puzzled me and I don't know if anybody with local knowledge could explain it is that St Malachy's registers apparently exist from only 1904, when they were apparently linked with St Patrick, but what happened prior to that, did they never perform any ceremonies?

[Blue70]

OPC site says St Malachy's was established 1904. This corresponds to absence on 1900 directory, appearance on 1911 directory, absence on c1899/1901 LHP map and appearance on c1908 map.


Blue

[MaryA]

Thanks maybe that clarifies it, we had thought it much earlier.

[VicMar1]

St Malachy's was pure guesswork on my part I'm afraid due to its location, but St Patricks and St Vincents has yielded nothing of interest either. Thanks Blue.
I am also considering that as Robert and Martha had married in Manchester during early 1892, in a CofE church (All Saints,Ancoats) that they may have gone back to family there for the event,haven't found anything from that search either. They lived in Brown Street together when they were married,so I will have to assume that is also in Ancoats ?.
Edit: All Souls Church,Ancoats

[MaryA]

I wonder if it's worth enquiring on a friendly Manchester forum, somebody may hold some resources they could check for you http://manchesterfamilyhist.proboards.com/

[Hilary]

Have you looked for confirmation records to see if they help?

[VicMar1]

Afraid I haven't Hilary, where would I find them please ? At the LRO ?

[Hilary]

There's a lot of RC confirmations on Ancestry.

[VicMar1]

Thanks Hilary but in truth I havent found anything of use on Anc for a long time and when I have its been by accident. The number of transcription errors in my family 'log' is almost beyond comprehension.
Have made some discoveries by switching my search to Manchester though and discovered that in 1891, number 10 Brown Street was a boarding house and they were not living there then.
In fact, in 1891 census it looks like she was with her Father in her home town of Haslingden and the transcript says she is named MURTHA! enough said I think ?
Now to concentrate on that area for clues.

[MaryA]

You are still learning Vic, never rely on transcriptions you must be creative in your searches as you have discovered. Hopefully Haslingden will be a good area for searching, the Blackburn newspaper is on the old newspapers via Lancashire library card and I've found that very useful in the past as they report minor incidents probably due to the lack of major news in the area.

[VicMar1]

It goes on and on and on ?
A quick update.
It would appear that the connection between Liverpool and Lancashire had been made some considerable time before 1892 when Martha (Riley) married Robert E Ellison and I suspect I have found the Irish connection at last ? Martha's Father, William,was a Horse Trader here in Liverpool and was domiciled at Richmond Row for the 1881 census,[RG11/3631, 8in12crt,St Annes parish]
Both her Father and Mother declare themselves born in Ireland and the children were born alternately in Pendleton and Liverpool,Martha being the eldest. Just might be the answer as to why they chose Manchester to get married I suspect ?.
Martha and Robert E. both came to live in Liverpool and in November 1894 both Marthas Mother,Ann, and Robert E. were convicted of receiving stolen jewellery and sentenced to terms of hard labour, while her younger Brother, John was convicted of the actual burglary and sentenced more harshly.
The Ellisons would appear to be rooted in Haslingden,Lancs.
There are so many Lancashire Rileys as to give the impression of taking over and likewise with the Ellisons so I am still trying to make solid connections.

[MaryA]

A nice update! You knew your family was never going to be straightforward didn't you

Now have you checked both Ancestry for criminal records and also the newspapers for the quarter sessions?

[VicMar1]

Heres a tricky one I cant quite get my head around.
1911 Census, two people I believe are the ones I am looking for but they are aged 50 + 60 respectively and there are no children at that address ?
(I believe that they have all grown up and left to make their own home)
The questions on the census asks "particulars as to marriage" and then goes on to ask of all married females at the address "how many children born to this marriage" and "How many of your children are still alive"?
My question is... would this be relevant to a couple in their senior years who obviously have no children living with them ?
It seems to be an historical enquiry rather than a snapshot census ?
The declaration has zero in both columns but I believe these people to be my G,G/Father & G,G/Mother.
How should this be interpreted ?

[Bertieone]

Hi Vic,

Does the entry in the years married, tally with what you know?

Can the signature be compared with any other signed document, marriage cert?

Is it possible it's the Gentleman's second marriage and the wife bears the same name?

With more details, many eyes can help.

[MaryA]

Good points made there Bert, and yes please give us details Vic and we will look to give our opinion, perhaps even be able to trace them backward and so eliminate or otherwise from your enquiries. I suppose there was never mention of the address in family stories?

That question is widely open to interpretation by our ancestors who probably really didn't understand it or who it applied to or about.

As an example check out the entry for Robert Parle, living Liverpool (specifically Everton), born Wexford, as an example. Although he was living alone, wife Annie was in the Infirmary and his children were either away from home, married and in their own homes, or emigrated to America, just look at the lovely information somebody had decided he should provide - not him since the handwriting is different.